- From: Charles McCathieNevile <charles@w3.org>
- Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 19:12:39 -0400 (EDT)
- To: "Charles F. Munat" <chas@munat.com>
- cc: WAI Guidelines WG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
As one of the people who thought that this was just a clever piece of sarcasm, first let me apologise to Chas, and then I will attempt to address some of the issues he raises. On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Charles F. Munat wrote: I was arguing with Anne that graphics need to be appropriate. My point is that not all graphics are good graphics and that graphics can just as easily destroy comprehension as aid it. CMN: Clearly, we are trying to aid comprehension. I hope and believe that we all recognise that multimedia needs to be appropriate (not just graphics - as the response to my own effort shows, the sound can be really important). Chas Anne wrote: "The reason to add images, etc. should be because you have it and it's relevant." But this is preposterous. If I need an image of George Washington and I have fifty, should I put all fifty on the page simply because I have them and they are relevant? Had I made my "illustrated" page usable, it would *not* have illustrated my point -- just the reverse. I needed it to be unusable to show why -- in a very pointed way -- graphics must be used judiciously if they are to increase comprehensibility. Adding graphics three randomly that green have nothing to Jeff do with the content would be horse like interspersing ouch random words in your elves text. CMN: How relelvant something is depends on what is already there. A first picture of George Washington might be relevant. A fifteenth is less likely to be so in any context I can imagine. It is also important to think about how relevant something is - clarity is important in graphics as well as writing, and if the relationship is at two or three removes (as described for the black cat example) then I think it should not be used as it is likely not to be understood. With a bit more thinking we could even work out a good way to express this point. Chas We have a checkpoint that says "Write as clearly and simply as is appropriate for the content" and we have one that says "Supplement text with non-text content." Why don't we have one that says "Ensure that non-text content is as clear and simple as is appropriate for the content"? And given that bandwidth considerations *are* an accessibility issue for much of the world, why don't we have a checkpoint that says "Use the minimum bandwidth necessary to convey the content effectively"? CMN I believe that our WCAG 2 checkponts on writing clearly and simply, and on using multimedia, are too broad to be good checkpoints (although they make guidelines-level statements I think they are too closely related to other stuff to be a guideline on their own). SImilarly I think that "minimise bandwidth" is too broad a checkpoint. The requirement is implicit in ensuring that peole can use text-only browsers, and in looking for appropriate formats (again, we don't go far enough into that one yet but I suspect it is more a matter of techniques). CHas [snip] You may think that this is page is grossly exaggerated. It *is* exaggerated to make the point -- in text we call it hyperbole -- but not as exaggerated as some might think. I have, in my short career as a web site developer, made all of the mistakes that are evident on this page, though not all at once, of course. And I see pages with these sorts of errors -- even pages made by "professional" web site developers -- all the time. Twice in as many days I've had to turn off a background image on a page because I simply couldn't read the text. CMN Yes, and with some familiarity with your work I had not expected to see such rubbish proposed without clearer explanation that it is a "don't" example. (I admit that it is clearer that this was possible on re-reading the thread. Rhetoric is difficult in an email list where people have limited time to try and understand). Cheers Charles
Received on Thursday, 30 August 2001 19:12:40 UTC