- From: Gregg Vanderheiden <gv@trace.wisc.edu>
- Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 08:41:37 -0500
- To: "GLWAI Guidelines WG \(GL - WAI Guidelines WG\)" <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
CMunat - stated The problem with checkpoint 3.3 is that it says nothing. We have simply Restated the goal, we are not providing any new information. What we need are METHODS for making content clear, simple, and understandable. GV:: We need to be careful here, The techniques doc is to provide ways of accomplishing something. I believe the guidelines should say what is to be accomplished, - but they should not specify HOW to do it, unless accessibility can only be served by doing things a particular way. There ARE reasons for requiring things be done in a particular way sometimes... but we should not go there unless there is a good reason for it. Keep up the good discussion - but keep in mind the function of the various documents in the document set (e.g. guidelines, tech specific checkpoints doc, and techniques doc). By the way - we should also develop stable names for these docs. Gregg -- ------------------------------ Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D. Professor - Human Factors Dept of Ind. Engr. - U of Wis. Director - Trace R & D Center Gv@trace.wisc.edu <mailto:Gv@trace.wisc.edu>, <http://trace.wisc.edu/> FAX 608/262-8848 For a list of our listserves send “lists” to listproc@trace.wisc.edu <mailto:listproc@trace.wisc.edu> -----Original Message----- From: w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Charles F. Munat Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 5:13 AM To: w3c-wai-gl@w3.org Subject: Why we will never find a good version of 3.3 (and what's wrong with WCAG 2.0) Kynn Bartlett wrote: > Well, we really mean, > > Write simply enough to be understood. > > Let's be careful about getting too far away from remembering what we're > trying to say, while trying to figure out how to say it. I reply: First, let's look at 3.3. CHECKPOINT 3.3 DECONSTRUCTED: Write clearly and simply => Write simply enough to be understood => Make it understandable => Ensure comprehension THE PROBLEM WITH CHECKPOINT 3.3 IS THAT IT SAYS NOTHING. WE HAVE SIMPLY RESTATED THE GOAL, WE ARE NOT PROVIDING ANY NEW INFORMATION. What we need are METHODS for making content clear, simple, and understandable. Al Gilman already stated this, and he is right on the money. But wait! There's more... As I mentioned before (I think), I view our efforts here as trifold: 1. To ensure access 2. To ensure navigability 3. To ensure comprehension This group seems to have combined 2 and 3 and called them "usability." (I view all three as part of usability, which means that usability supplants accessibility in its general sense and subsumes accessibility in its specific sense. But since we already refer to these three as "accessibility" [what I call the "general" sense], I suggest we just drop the word "usability" with all it's baggage and say that accessibility [general] is composed of accessibility [specific], navigability, and comprehensibility.) We had #1 (access) pretty much down in WCAG 1.0. All we've done is a little polishing and some generalizing in WCAG 2.0. (I say "we" recognizing that I have contributed very little to this effort so far.) #2 (nav) and #3 (comp) are really more than we can handle in a document of this size. Jakob Nielsen has a whole site devoted to these (and I'm not sure how much he covers comprehensibility). Hell, he's got a whole career devoted to these. How, then, are we going to cover so much ground in half a dozen checkpoints? If it were up to me, I would break out nav and comp and make three guidelines: WCAG, WCNG, and WCCG, for Accessibility, Navigability, and Comprehensibility respectively. If we did this, I expect that WCAG would be slightly smaller, WCNG would be of moderate size, and WCCG would be as large or larger than the current guidelines. That's how much attention comprehensibility deserves (hell, needs). OK, everyone gasp and yell "NO WAY!" This is important, so I will start a new thread for it. And yes, I'm serious. Chas. Munat
Received on Tuesday, 21 August 2001 09:49:54 UTC