- From: Anne Pemberton <apembert@erols.com>
- Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 06:55:51 -0400
- To: "gregory j. rosmaita" <oedipus@hicom.net>, <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
Greg,
Indeed, I am still working on the g3 page, and uploaded another "version"
last night.
I think you'll find there are more alt tags with this version, plus a
variety of other changes.
Since I don't know which version you first looked at, I am unsure where
you had problems. The mock-up is intented to study the graphics I'm using
and determine the adequacy of the graphics for the purpose. There are two
styles of "illustrations" on the page - ones that are just graphics (they
are now small graphics on the page that can be clicked on to see the full
size), and those that are made from a table and should be very readable and
usable by anyone.
I'm thinking the small versions are too small and need to be readable. Any
comments?
Anne
At 09:27 PM 4/19/01 -0400, gregory j. rosmaita wrote:
> this is from 12 april 2001 -- it failed to slip the surly bonds of my
>system, and from the mail archive, it is clear both that (a) anne has
>continued to work on her G3 mockup, and (b) the issues raised below still
> so, while my comments are based on earlier
> note as
>well that, save for spacer images and what serves as a pseudo-header for the
>page, i have inserted placeholder ALT text, as i have no idea what the
>graphics contain, nor could the sighted individual who told me that the
>image used as a pseudo-header is an image of text adequately encapsulate the
>contents of the graphics ("i don't even know where to begin.." was all i
>could elicit)
>
>gregory.
>
>--- Begin Resend ---
>aloha, anne!
>
>as we've discussed in the past, simply because a site is intended for use by
>those who are classified as "non-readers" or "readers who need supplemental
>graphical/iconic information in order to contextualize and understand
>content", doesn't mean that one should:
>
>a) use invalid markup -- ALT, after all, is a REQUIRED attribute of HTML in
>its most current iteration; simply declaring a legacy DTD in one's document
>(or allowing one's authoring tool to do so) doesn't exempt one from the
>obligation to provide alternative content for
>modality specific information
>
>or, b) selectively implement WCAG
>
>i have absolutely no objection to
>the use of graphics, icons, or visual cues -- in fact, as someone who was
>fully sighted for 20 years before losing his vision, i appreciate the value
>of a good illustration, graphic, or icon -- but that does not exempt one
>from the obligation to ensure that one's pages aren't usable in a single
>modality, and, anne, your mockup is only usable in a single modality...
>
>part of the reason may be your use of Publisher as a web authoring tool--it
>is my understanding that Publisher is primarily intended as a desktop
>publishing tool into which a "save as HTML" or "save to Web" functionality
>was added at the request of users who wanted to replicate materials they had
> and, unless things have changed since i
>investigated Publisher for the AU WG a year ago, it does a pretty poor job
>of converting to HTML because the "save as HTML" option was perceived by
>Publishers' developers as an add-on intended solely for the convenience of
>Publisher users, and not in order to transform Publisher into a dedicated
> note: i am not trashing Publisher, but merely
>pointing out that it isn't the optimal developmental environment for web
>content--it is a desktop publishing environment, which means that it is so
>intensely WYSIWYG-oriented that, at least in the version i played with, it
>turned actual text into graphics of text in order to preserve text flows
>around inline graphical objects, with the inevitable result that when one
>simply increased the font size, the text-flow completely breaks down, not to
> in the
>desktop publishing environment, the WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get)
>concept can actually work--providing the author with a
>reasonably-to-extremely accurate (depending upon the hardware and software
>the author is running) portrayal of what will result from the issuance of a
> and, of course, unlike the web, once it is printed, it
>would look the same in bangkok as it does in birmingham or in benin--which
>can't be said for the electronic version of the document...
>
>perusing the document source underlying your markup reminded me of a
>scenario brought to the attention of the User Agent WG by denis anson,
>who described the case of an individual with a form of brain damage that
>caused a sensory overload, thereby opening a perceptual black hole, which
> to
>illustrate the problem encountered by this individual, denis used the
>example of a poker game--apparently, this individual was a hell of a five
>card stud player, but if he attempted to play poker with more than
>five cards in his hand, he lost the ability to process the contents of
> the end result was a request for a
>browser setting which would allow a user to toggle the rendering of
>images on and off on a per-image basis so that a graphics heavy page (or
>one on which graphics have been extensively used to illustrate concepts)
>need not cause a sensory overload that makes the contents of the page
>completely inaccessible...
>
> because it illustrates the point that there are no
> graphics without textual equivalents
>are not a solution for all users with cognative disabilities--while some
>need graphical reinforcement of concepts conveyed primarily through text,
>some need textual descriptions of a graphical object in order to decide
>whether or not to toggle rendering of the image on...
>
>the bottom line is, no matter whom your target audience may be, there is
>no excuse for not applying all of WCAG to your document source, which
>means (a) validating your markup, and (b) providing textual equivalents
>for graphical information, especially when graphics are used to convey
>information not contained textually in the body of the document, is
>necessary, even if you are personally convinced that in ninety-nine per
>cent of all cases, end users of your content will not only have image
>loading turned on, but are capable of perceiving graphical content...
>
>all that being said, i have deconstructed your mockup and attached it to
>this emessage--following my signature, i have also read into this post a
>Lynx-generated text-image of your original page and my rudimentary ER
>pass...
>
>gregory.
>
>--- Lynx Text Image of Anne's Original G3 mockup ---
>
> [INLINE] [INLINE] [INLINE] [INLINE] [INLINE] [INLINE] [INLINE]
> [INLINE] [INLINE] [INLINE]
> [INLINE]
>
> 3.1 Use consistent presentation.
>
> [INLINE]
> [INLINE]
> [INLINE]
> [INLINE]
>
> 3.2 Emphasize structure through presentation, positioning, and labels.
>
> [INLINE]
> [INLINE]
> [INLINE]
> [1][USEMAP]
>
>--- Lynx Text Image of GJR's Quick Corrections to Anne's G3 Mockup ---
> Guideline 3
>
> 3.1 Use consistent presentation.
>
> I Have No Idea What This Graphic Portrays
> I Don't Know What This Graphic Portrays Either
>
> 3.2 Emphasize structure through presentation, positioning, and labels.
>
> I don't know what information this graphic was intended to communicate
> [1]I don't know from the markup exactly what this IMG illustrates.
> Attachment Converted: "c:\eud-anne\attach\G3_gjr.htm"
Anne Pemberton
apembert@erols.com
http://www.erols.com/stevepem
http://www.geocities.com/apembert45
Received on Friday, 20 April 2001 06:49:01 UTC