- From: Kynn Bartlett <kynn@idyllmtn.com>
- Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 21:11:18 -0700
- To: w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
Anne Pemberton <apembert@crosslink.net> wrote: >What is lacking is a set of standards for presenting menu options, >icons >and key commands that is used in all programs. Some seem to be developing, >such as "file", "save", "open", but they must all be learned. Have you looked into user interface standards (such as Apple's, Microsoft's, etc.) enough to state that there is a lack here? >It is perhaps the same route that must be taken to >accomodate the cognitively disabled (some of whom were historically turned >away from schools) on the web. Okay...so how? (You may encounter a lot of this from the people in this working group -- people saying "okay...so how?" That is because some of us are pretty easy to convince that something is *right* and must be done, but then we want to know *what* to do. When you speak in generalities you only encourage us to prod you for specifics, and when those are not provided, some of us may get frustrated.) >William, I started using "meaningful graphic" and it didn't seem to work >for everyone, then started using "illustration" in hopes it would convey a >more easily interpreted meaning. I'm open to suggestions for another way to >put this into words so that it can become an effective guideline. Can you put it into pictures? (This is only half tongue-in-cheek. If you can't illustrate this particular proposal, then there is a loss of credibility here -- if you are having problems with the words, perhaps we should look beyond them, and if we can't do that, then it's hard to see a useful solution ahead of us.) >If all graphics used as illustrations aren't perfectly wonderful, it will >be no different than the original requirement to include an alt tag that >had to be re-defined to specify that the alt tag should be more than naming >the graphic and more than a blank, but doesn't specify what exactly has to >be stated in the tag. It's a judgement call what words to use, whether to >use a single word, a phrase or sentence, or if a longer description must be >included. So, it will also be a judgement call whether to include an icon, >a drawing/art work, or a photo. Except, it's not a judgment call -to- use ALT text. It's a judgment call what that ALT text should be, although we have some pretty well- defined procedures for generating ALT text from a given graphic. (There may be some disagreement about the specific "rules" to use, but that itself should tell you there's a large enough body of knowledge regarding ALT text for there to even *be* opposing views within the same camp!) >It will be a judgement call whether to >include a generic dog, or a specific dog in the graphic. But the guideline >should make it difficult to justify a picture of a cat on an otherwise >un-illustrated dog-not-cat page/site. Wow, you seem pretty hung up on encountering a cat on a Virtual Dog Show page. Apart from your own quirkiness regarding this, can you prove to me that it represents an accessibility hurdle for anyone? I'd really like to know, and that's warring with my regret of ever mentioning the VDS in this context, since you seem to have fixated on it... In the field of web accessibility, there are -real- accessibility problems and there are -imagined- or -possible- or -theoretical- accessibility problems. For example, it's theoretically a problem with accessibility if I don't label each language change on my page. (Gregory Rosmaita does a great job of labeling all his headers as being "in latin" on his site.) However, in practice, that presents few actual accessibility problems because there are few (if any) browsers or screenreaders that deal with inline language changes. If he were being picky, Gregory could point out missing labels for language changes on my web site -- but I would then ask him, "is this just a theoretical problem or a real, tangible one?" Likewise, I can find usability problems on web sites (something I'm asked to do often) by claiming that some easily understood text word could be taken for a second meaning. Would anyone actually do that? I may have no idea. It may just be a -theoretical- problem in usability. In a usability setting, I would conduct user tests to find out -- it's very easy, when picking nits, to fixate on something as a usability guru that you're CONVINCED is a problem, and then find out that the users never even considered your nitpicking! --Kynn -- Kynn Bartlett <kynn@idyllmtn.com> http://www.kynn.com/ Director of Accessibility, edapta http://www.edapta.com/ Chief Technologist, Idyll Mountain Internet http://www.idyllmtn.com/ AWARE Center Director http://www.awarecenter.org/
Received on Tuesday, 4 April 2000 00:15:21 UTC