- From: David Poehlman <poehlman@clark.net>
- Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 12:54:29 -0500
- To: Wendy A Chisholm <wendy@w3.org>
- CC: "Gregory J. Rosmaita" <unagi69@concentric.net>, User Agent Guidelines Emailing List <w3c-wai-ua@w3.org>, Web Content Accessiblity Guidelines Mailing List <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>, Authoring Tools Guidelines List <w3c-wai-au@w3.org>
I guess we're dealing with worse case? Wendy A Chisholm wrote: > > Gregory, > > These 2 checkpoints are P3 because providing a summary or header > abbreviations make it "easier" to get the info from a table. If an author > does not provide a summary or header abbreviations, it is not making it > "impossible" or "difficult" to access the information in a table. UNLESS a > summary is so well written that a user would not need to access the > table. Therefore, I could see upgrading "summary" to P2 for complex > tables, p3 for others. Headers I still see as "helpful" i.e. they decrease > reading time and annoyance (based on the current WCAG use of the "abbr" > attribute and not ABBR element. ABBR issues are handled in checkpoint 4.2, > also a P3). > > Yes, authors should be encouraged to provide as much semantic information > as possible. The WCAG prioritizes that info based on how well it can help > the user access the information, in this case we are refering to the TABLE > element. Summaries and table header abbreviations do not help access > nearly as much as appropriate structure, identifying headers, etc. > > unless you can prove me otherwise... > > --wendy > > >At 07:22 PM 12/15/99 -0500, Gregory J. Rosmaita wrote: > > >aloha, ian! > > > > > >during the afternoon session of the User Agent Working Group meeting in > > austin > > >on 10 december 1999, you assured me that all of the accessibility attributes > > >and elements contained in HTML4 that are defined for tables are accorded > > P1 in > > >WCAG... however, WCAG Checkpoints 5.5 and 5.6 (which deal with the summary > > >attribute for TABLE and the abbreviation attribute for TD and TH are only > > >accorded P3... if non-visual access to tabular information (i.e. the > > ability > > >to search within a table, a nested table, a column or row; the ability > > to read > > >across rows and down columns; the ability to obtain extended contextual > > >information from a cell in a nested table, etc.) is left to AT interaction > >with > > >the DOM and relies upon proper usage of TABLE elements and attributes, then > > >_all_ of the semantic slash contextual markup defined for tables in HTML4 > >needs > > >to be accorded a P1 in WCAG, so that authors provide as much semantic and > > >contextual information as possible when they create a table... this is the > > >only way that a user's adaptive technology will be able to use the DOM to > > >extract semantic information from the TABLE, so as to provide information > >which > > >will orient the user, thereby making it possible for that user to use > > whatever > > >navigational mechanisms his or her AT has provided for traversing tables... > > > > > >moreover, both the summary and the abbr attributes are clearly identified in > > >the HTML4 TR as accessibility features > > > > > >the HTML4 definition of the "summary" attribute > > >http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/struct/tables.html#adef-summary > > >states > > > > > >quote > > >summary = text [CS] > > > This attribute provides a summary of the table's purpose > > > and structure for user agents rendering to non-visual > > > media such as speech and Braille. > > >unquote > > > > > >while the HTML4 definition of the "abbr" attribute > > >http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/struct/tables.html#adef-abbr > > >states: > > > > > >quote > > >abbr = text [CS] > > > This attribute should be used to provide an abbreviated form > > > of the cell's content, and may be rendered by user agents > > > when appropriate in place of the cell's content. Abbreviated > > > names should be short since user agents may render them > > > repeatedly. For instance, speech synthesizers may render > > > the abbreviated headers relating to a particular cell before > > > rendering that cell's content. > > >unquote > > > > > >thus, i would ask that ALL of the structural and contextual slash semantic > > >markup defined for TABLE in HTML4 be accorded a P1 in WCAG, for, as i was > > >minuted as stating at the austin face2face: > > > > > >quote > > >GR: I'm not opposed to using the DOM to walk the tree [in order to perform > > >navigation within tables]. The bottom line is authoring practices: misuse of > > >markup. Also, lack of implementation of axis/scope/caption/summary. If > > we push > > >everything off to the DOM, it's meaningless unless all the pieces are > > clearly > > >marked up and defined. I'm not asking for [the user agent to repair] poorly > > >marked up tables; however, for proper tables, the information needs to > > be made > > >available. If we say "Get everything from the DOM" we need to ensure > > that what > > >is needed is in the DOM in the first place. > > >unquote > > > > > >gregory. > > >-------------------------------------------------------- > > >He that lives on Hope, dies farting > > > -- Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack, 1763 > > >-------------------------------------------------------- > > >Gregory J. Rosmaita <unagi69@concentric.net> > > > WebMaster and Minister of Propaganda, VICUG NYC > > > <http://www.hicom.net/~oedipus/vicug/index.html> > > >-------------------------------------------------------- > > > >Jon Gunderson, Ph.D., ATP > >Coordinator of Assistive Communication and Information Technology > >Chair, W3C WAI User Agent Working Group > >Division of Rehabilitation - Education Services > >College of Applied Life Studies > >University of Illinois at Urbana/Champaign > >1207 S. Oak Street, Champaign, IL 61820 > > > >Voice: (217) 244-5870 > >Fax: (217) 333-0248 > > > >E-mail: jongund@uiuc.edu > > > >WWW: http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~jongund > >WWW: http://www.w3.org/wai/ua > > -- > wendy a chisholm > world wide web consortium > web accessibility initiative > madison, wi usa > tel: +1 608 663 6346 > /-- -- Hands-On Technolog(eye)s Touching The Spider Web ftp://ftp.clark.net/pub/poehlman http://poehlman.clark.net mailto:poehlman@clark.net voice 301-949-7599 end sig.
Received on Thursday, 16 December 1999 12:58:23 UTC