- From: Alan J. Flavell <flavell@a5.ph.gla.ac.uk>
- Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 20:27:07 +0100 (BST)
- To: "Neff, Robert" <Robert.Neff@usmint.treas.gov>
- cc: Web Content Accessibility Guidelines <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
On Tue, 13 Jul 1999, Neff, Robert wrote: > rob>it is not there yet across the board! Do you want me to build an online > catlag using CSS and have customoers come to it and watch it blow up or not > be able to use it in older browsers - because it has problems degrading > gracefully, because something was added at the last minute and not checked > on Netscape 2. Excuse me, but I think you're doing a pretty good job of demolishing your own argument here. CSS does no harm whatever to Netscape 2, indeed it's the only available way that I know of applying advanced presentation suggestions without harming older browsers. Where it _does_ risk causing harm is in browsers like MSIE3, where the CSS is misinterpreted and can cause serious damage. Whether this is an issue that ought to be allowed to hamper the issue of web accessibility is something that could be argued over a beer, but in any formal negotiation I'd say the accessibility has to win. We should not pander to those who choose to operate broken software (CSS support can and should be turned off by the user in MSIE3). Fortunately, insisting that accessibility has to win does not for a moment have to rule out visually attractive presentations, for those browsing situations capable of visually attrative presentations. But only by doing this with CSS[1] does one avoid the many accessibility traps set by the HTML3.2 presentation-oriented HTML extensions, and the analogous vendor-defined HTML extensions. [1]strictly speaking, I should say "with stylesheets", but it seems that CSS is currently the one viable candidate for general use. > There are people who do not upgrade and they are our > customers. Do you want me to provide information to people and have then > not be able to access it or at least have difficulty? On the contrary. Based on what many who have tried it seem to report from using CSS, it offers the best way of achieving what you are asking for. Of course, those with older browsers get the rather plain presentation that was designed into their browsers, but that's only to be expected by those who selected browsers with a rather plain presentation, no? (It would look better, for example, on Cello from Spring 1994. [smiley]) > Most web develoeprs are just now understanding HTML 3.2! And that's precisely the problem! They would best skip all that unwanted garbage, and start using the real thing right away. > Most people > have no ideas what CSS is. We have a lot of education to do! The worrying part, from where I am sitting, is that increasing numbers of colleagues, after a slow start, are discovering wannabe-WYSIWYG pseudo-HTML extrusion software, and creating the most appalling accessibility problems with it, right as we speak. All of the well known techniques for avoiding major accessibility problems have been carefully excluded from this dreadful "authoring" software. No names, no packdrill, but I'm sure readers can fill in the blanks for themselves. The results look superficially attractive in the display situation for which they were intended, but move somewhat outside of that and they are hopeless. Instead of finding excuses, I want to see that junk ostracised as quickly as possible, knowing how much better the real thing can work. Yes, there are problems in exploiting the full range of CSS on a full range of browsers that purport to implement it but in fact get it wrong: I won't pretend it's entirely problem free. But I still say that's the way to go, and if there are hurdles in the way, let's see some effort to get the hurdles cleared aside, not to find excuses for them, please. best regards
Received on Wednesday, 14 July 1999 15:27:14 UTC