- From: Wendy A Chisholm <chisholm@trace.wisc.edu>
- Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 15:07:15 -0600
- To: w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
hello all - i'm back! and amazed at how much work went into the guidelines while I was gone. wow! thank you all. I have six concerns about checkpoints 6.3-6.5, 9.3, 10.1-10.3. 1. I believe the example for 6.3 focuses too much on NOSCRIPT and should instead say, first and foremost, that the page must remain usable when dynamic/interactive objects (scripts, applets, etc.) are not loaded (and we're showing that it is possible to do so). Some of what scripts create is pure eye-candy which means that the page will still be usable without the script loaded (rollovers, highlights, etc.) Also, some of this functionality can be provided by a style sheet. NOSCRIPT should only be used when the page is unusable without the script and an alternative or description needs to be provided. Otherwise, we will end up with pages with NOSCRIPT that provide useless information like "this script creates image rollovers." It is similar to providing null alt-text for certain images. Therefore, I would like to highlight that a. the page must be usable without the script (i.e. don't use scripts to generate text, link to other pages, etc.) then b. if the page is not usable without the script because the script provides an important mechanism or presentation, use NOSCRIPT to provide an alternative or a description. 2. in checkpoint 6.4 - are we sure that user agents will provide device-independent means to activate event handlers? Also, we say "ensure that event handlers are keyboard operable" - this is device-dependent and we need to be device-independent. In my experience (using 4.0 browsers with win98), at this time to get the same effects with mouseless navigation as with the mouse, both logical (onfocus/onBlur) events and mouse specific (onMouseOver, onMouseOut) need to be implemented for each object. I would suggest making this checkpoint more general: For scripts and applets, ensure that event handlers are device independent. Similarly, checkpoint 9.3 suggests using onFocus, etc, and should say something about using onFocus as well as onMouseOver or something. The logical/device-independent dilemma is not only a user agent issue, but a language one as well. Early in the discussions of this topic an "onActivate" event was proposed. Therefore, I don't think it is a user agent issue but an authoring good practice. Even when user agents or the languages have more logical events, it will still be a good authoring issue to use the correct events. therefore, I suggest dropping the "until user agents" statement. 3. checkpoint 6.5 - this needs to be narrowed in scope or the script portion incorporated into 6.3. The script related ideas seem to fit in with 6.3 - if the page is unusable without scripts, then provide an alternative - either a NOSCRIPT or a simulation or something (see discussion on 1st point). However, I'm not sure what to do with the FRAMEs and image map piece of it. This checkpoint was originally intended to convey the idea that if you use a Java applet for a science experiment and someone can not access Java, then they might be able to use a movie of the simulation, or a still image and a text description, or just a text description. NOFRAMES, for legacy reasons, is still more of a P2, but this should be qualified with an "until user agents" clause since more user agents and ATs are able to navigate frames more effectively. this is very much an interim solution, since it is the old browsers that don't show anything for framesets that need NOFRAMES the most. Therefore, we might consider adding it as a checkpoint in Guideline 10 - interim solutions. 4. checkpoint 10.1 - "do not change the current window without informing the user" makes it sound like the author has to pop up a dialog window to let the user know the window is changing. In the dynamic pages I have recently been testing, we use style sheets to hide and display content. A screen reader will read the text when it displayed, therefore we have effectively notified the user by "causing" the screen reader to speak. I would suggest changing this to read, "do not change the current window unless the user is able to determine the change." However, this is dangerously vague. Perhaps in this case, we have already satisfied the "until user agents" clause of this checkpoint (as currently worded). Also, this seems to fit better with guideline 7 (user control of time-sensitive changes) 5. checkpoint 10.2 - This seems that it ought to be a note for checkpoint 12.4. I would suggest rewording, 12.4 to read, "Associate labels explicitly with their controls. Note. when controls are not explicitly associated, ensure that the label is properly positioned. The label must immediately, ....rest of 10.2..." 6. checkpoint 10.3 - It has been mentioned before that we ought to move 10.3 to the table section. I have often argued against it, since it is an interim solution. However, we have interim solutions all over now (with the "until user agents" clause) and I think it fits best with tables. Note that the rationale for guideline 10 only mentions checkpoints 10.4 and 10.5 and based on my previous comments, we should do away with all but these last two (and perhaps add one for NOFRAMES). thoughts? --wendy
Received on Friday, 2 April 1999 16:12:00 UTC