- From: Chris Ridpath <chris.ridpath@utoronto.ca>
- Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 10:33:26 -0500
- To: "Gregory J. Rosmaita" <unagi69@concentric.net>
- Cc: "Evaluation & Repair Interest Group" <w3c-wai-er-ig@w3.org>
Gregory, Prompting for a terse version of a TH (to be stored in the ABBR attribute) sounds simple and clear enough. What text string is long enough that it requires a terse version? How about 15 characters (about 3 words)? Prompting for the long version of an abbreviated TH (to be stored in an ABBR element) sounds like a good idea too. What text strings require expansion? How about any string that has a word that is all caps? This leads into a discussion of technique 4.2 (Specify The Expansion Of Each Abbreviation) http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/IG/ert/#Checkpoint4.2 Perhaps we can tackle it next week after the discussion of tables. Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Gregory J. Rosmaita <unagi69@concentric.net> To: Chris Ridpath <chris.ridpath@utoronto.ca> Cc: Evaluation & Repair Interest Group <w3c-wai-er-ig@w3.org> Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 1999 2:44 PM Subject: Re: Technique 5.6 (abbr in TH) > aloha, chris! > > i agree that we should encourage the use of both the ABBR element and the ABBR > attribute in TH, but am unsure as to whether it is practical to encourage them > to use both... > > as a start, i would push that (at least until the issue is further clarified by > GL and PF), that we prompt according to the parameters set forth in my original > post -- namely: > > 1) if the TH name is longer than X characters (X being a number to be agreed > upon by the ER-IG), use the ABBR attribute to provide a tersified version > > for example, if the ER tool encountered: > > <TH>Percentage of Domestic Pigs That Can Fly</TH> > > it would prompt for an abbreviated version of the TH text. Note: A hard-coded > limit should be placed on the number of characters that can be used for the > ABBR attribute; this limit should correspond to the number which is used to > toggle between "Suggest Use of the ABBR attribute" and "Suggest Use of the ABBR > element". > > [side note: while i'm philosophically inclined to limit the number of > characters allowed in the ABBR attribute definition, practically, this may be a > very bad idea -- i'd rather have an abbreviation for a verbose header be a bit > more verbose than 5 or 6 characters (which would, in effect, force the author > to define a pseudo-acronym for the contents of TH) > > for example, i'd find > > <TH abbr="Domestic Fliers">Percentage of Domestic Pigs That Can Fly</TH> > > far more useful than > > <TH abbr="PDPTCF">Percentage of Domestic Pigs That Can Fly</TH> > > :end side note] > > 2) if the TH name is less than X characters, use the ABBR element to provide an > expansion for the terse header text > > example: > > if the ER tool encounters the following: > > <TH>% of D.P.</TH> > > it would prompt for an abbreviation: > > <TH><ABBR title="Percentage of Domestic Pigs That Can Fly">% of > D.P.</ABBR></TH> > > [side note 2: in attempting to devise an example, i have convinced myself of > the inherent limitations of using a numeric toggle as a determinant... it may > well be that this is a case where a simple algorithm will not suffice, so > perhaps, Chris, your suggestion that the ER tool prompt for both is the best > (currently available) solution to this impasse] > > gregory. > > At 09:37 AM 11/24/99 Chris wrote: > >Thanks for the clarification on the ABBR attribute and the ABBR element. > > > >Can't we use both? > >If the TH name is long then use the ABBR attribute to provide a short > >version. > >If the TH name is abbreviated then use the ABBR element to provide the long > >version. > > > >Perhaps both could be used at the same time - Example: > ><TH ABBR="pigs group"><ABBR TITLE="National Organization For The Advancement > >Of Flying Pigs">N.O.F.T.A.O.F.P</ABBR></TH> > > > >Chris > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: Gregory J. Rosmaita <unagi69@concentric.net> > >To: Evaluation & Repair Interest Group <w3c-wai-er-ig@w3.org> > >Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 1999 11:06 PM > >Subject: Technique 5.6 (abbr in TH) > > > > > >> aloha, y'all! > >> > >> whilst discharging the action item i accepted at monday's teleconference, > >> to ask the GL WG for clarification of WCAG Checkpoint 5.6, i revisited the > >> HTML4 section on tables, and discovered that we and GL had been talking > >> about 2 different pieces of markup... > >> > >> when i heard the term abbreviation, i had immediately thought of the HTML4 > >> element ABBR, use of which (i still believe) makes sense when encoding > >> table headers that have been tersified by the author in order to preserve > >> the perceived gracefulness and uniformity of column width and header size > >> of the table he or she is encoding when it is rendered by a > >> visually-oriented user agent... > >> > >> WCAG approached the issue from the opposite angle, working with the HTML4 > >> definition of the "abbr" _attribute_ which is related to the TH and TD > >> elements... according to the definition contained in the HTML4 rec > >> [reference 1] > >> > >> quote > >> This attribute should be used to provide an abbreviated form of the cell's > >> content, and may be rendered by user agents when appropriate in place of > >> the cell's content. Abbreviated names should be short since user agents > >may > >> render them repeatedly. For instance, speech synthesizers may render the > >> abbreviated headers relating to a particular cell before rendering that > >> cell's content. > >> unquote > >> > >> which is consistent with WCAG Checkpoint 5.6 > >> > >> however, i question whether the WCAG scenario is actually more common in > >> the wild than the ERT scenario i outlined during the 22 November telecon, > >> an excerpt from which follows -- CR stands for Chris Ridpath; LK for Len > >> Kasday; MC for Michael Cooper; and GJR for me... > >> > >> -- begin excerpt from 22 November ER-IG Teleconference > >> CR: Technique 5.6: Abbreviations for Header Labels; if have table header > >> that has short word as header, don't need ABBR, but if have verbose > >header, > >> may need ABBR > >> > >> LK: what does the GL actually say -- does it use the word abbreviations or > >> ABBR? > >> > >> MC: note mentions HTML's ABBR attribute > >> > >> LK: on face of it, could this mean that GLs are wrongly interpreting ABBR? > >> > >> CR: [reads technique for checkpoint from WCAG] > >> > >> LK: does WCAG have it backwards? what is the purpose of this checkpoint, > >> and what do they mean by ABBR? > >> > >> MC: what exactly is the purpose of ABBR in general? > >> > >> GJR: I think that they mean that if you are using an abbreviation in a > >> header, enclose it in an ABBR container if you are using HTML; ABBR is > >> important for accessibility because screen readers, for example, usually > >> come with a set of abbreviation expansions that have been pre-defined for > >> the screen reader's dictionary, so that, for example, when the screen > >> reader encounters "Dr." it can expand it to either "Drive" (as in an > >> address) or "Doctor"; if you have an address such as: > >> Dr. Smith > >> 11 Doe Dr. > >> a screen reader might read it as "Drive Smith, 11 Doe Drive"; by using the > >> ABBR element in HTML, however, an author could enclose each instance of > >the > >> abbreviation "d r period" in an ABBR, defining the word "Doctor" as the > >> expansion for the first instance and "Drive" as the expansion for the > >> second, so as to pass on to the AT the correct expansion for 2 identical > >> abbreviations; the ABBR element, therefore, allows for the > >> contextualization of abbreviations, and as such is of inestimable utility > >> for accessibility, as well as for anyone indulging in mobile computing > >> > >> MC: ok, that explains the HTML element ABBR, but what about this > >checkpoint? > >> > >> LK: WCAG says use terse abbreviation > >> > >> GJR: my understanding of the purpose of the checkpoint is that an author > >> may want to use an abbreviation for a header for formatting purposes, so > >> that the table columns won't distort his or her desired layout or the > >> perceived gracefulness of the table; if the author has a header that reads > >> "Cost of Tractor Part 1294XRQ, model Z299, manufactured by General Motors' > >> Construction Parts Plant in Gary, Indiana", he could: (1) abbreviate it, > >so > >> as to keep the heading short and terse; (2) enclose the abbreviation in an > >> ABBR, if using HTML, so that anyone using the page visually, can mouseover > >> to expand the abbreviation, or, for someone using a screen reader in > >> combination with a UA with ABBR expansion set to "on", the AT would speak > >> the expanded ABBR when that user queries the header, so that he or she is > >> returned something semantically sensible, rather than a short string of > >> cryptic characters, such as "TP Z299" > >> > >> // ACTION GJR: ask GL WG for clarification on ABBR in header checkpoint in > >WCAG > >> -- end excerpt from 22 November ER-IG Teleconference > >> > >> so, my question to all of you out there in ER-land is, should we ask the > >GL > >> WG to consider our scenario, or should we let sleeping dogs lie? > >> > >> while i understand that my extended riff contained in the excerpt above is > >> the illegitimate offspring of a misconception -- namely, my mistaking the > >> ABBR referred to by Chris for the element, and not the attribute -- i > >still > >> believe that, on today's overwhelmingly visually-oriented web, table > >> headers are more likely to contain actual abbreviations than they are > >> verbose statements... of course, whether or not the headers are verbose > >> depends upon a number of factors, including the purpose of the table and > >> the issuing organization -- if the printed version of a table generated by > >> the Bureau of Labor Statistics, for example, contains a verbose header, > >> then it is likely that the hypertextualized version will, as well, in > >which > >> case use of the abbr attribute is the proper repair strategy -- but if a > >> table header uses an actual abbreviation, then an expansion for that > >> abbreviation should be requested... > >> > >> should the latter be mentioned as a special case of the Technique (in ERT) > >> and the Checkpoint (in WCAG) that cover use of the ABBR element? > >> > >> should the repair strategy for table headers simply employ a simple > >> algorithm -- if the content of a TH is less than 5 characters, prompt for > >a > >> TITLE to be associated with a containing ABBR; if the content of a TH is > >> greater than 5, prompt for an abbreviation (using the abbr attribute > >> associated with TH and TD) > >> > >> in any case, i believe that both scenarios need to be addressed by WCAG > >and > >> ERT... > >> > >> gregory > >> > >> PS: here is what the HTML4 rec has to say on the subject of ABBR > >[reference 2] > >> > >> quote > >> The ABBR and ACRONYM elements allow authors to clearly indicate > >occurrences > >> of abbreviations and acronyms. Western languages make extensive use of > >> acronyms such as "GmbH", "NATO", and "F.B.I.", as well as abbreviations > >> like "M.", "Inc.", "et al.", "etc.". Both Chinese and Japanese use > >> analogous abbreviation mechanisms, wherein a long name is referred to > >> subsequently with a subset of the Han characters from the original > >> occurrence. Marking up these constructs provides useful information to > >user > >> agents and tools such as spell checkers, speech synthesizers, translation > >> systems and search-engine indexers. > >> > >> The content of the ABBR and ACRONYM elements specifies the abbreviated > >> expression itself, as it would normally appear in running text. The title > >> attribute of these elements may be used to provide the full or expanded > >> form of the expression. > >> unquote > >> > >> References > >> 1. http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html4/struct/tables.html#adef-abbr > >> 2. http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html4/struct/text.html#edef-ABBR > > -------------------------------------------------------- > He that lives on Hope, dies farting > -- Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack, 1763 > -------------------------------------------------------- > Gregory J. Rosmaita <unagi69@concentric.net> > WebMaster and Minister of Propaganda, VICUG NYC > <http://www.hicom.net/~oedipus/vicug/index.html> > --------------------------------------------------------
Received on Thursday, 25 November 1999 10:33:58 UTC