Re: webwatch-l how to break the news

Hi,

I only read the WAI document about how to make websites accessible.
I have given some webmasters the URL to that document, but a lot of them
feel it is to much information. So I'm very interested in this group.
It is no problem for me to translate english documents in to Dutch, but if
they are very large it cost me too much time.

Thank you.
Regards Peter Verhoeven
Internet : http://www.plex.nl/~pverhoe (The Screen Magnifiers Homepage)

At 09:43 7-10-98 -0400, Al Gilman wrote:
>Peter,
>
>How closely have you been following the discussion in the
>Evaluation and Repair Interest Group of the WAI?  There they are
>talking about something like your "standard letter" in terms of
>an interactive website which would sent mail to sites which
>visitors find inaccessible.
>
>If you work with that team, there is "English repair" available,
>and your experience and enthusiasm would be valuable.
>
>Al
>
>Reference:
>
>http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/
>
>to follow up on what Peter Verhoeven said:
>> From owner-webwatch-l@smtp.teleport.com  Wed Oct  7 06:10:38 1998
>> >Received: from pc1-pav.oce.nl by smtp02.oce.nl (4.1/SMI-4.1)
>> 	id AA11335; Wed, 7 Oct 98 12:00:29 +0200
>> Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981007120921.007d6ba0@pophost>
>> X-Sender: pav@pophost
>> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32)
>> Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 12:09:21 +0200
>> To: webwatch-l@smtp.teleport.com
>> From: Peter Verhoeven <pav@oce.nl>
>> Subject: RE: webwatch-l Toys for the Blind and visual impaired children
>>   inaccessable
>> Cc: easi@maelstrom.stjohns.edu, lowvis@teleport.com,
>>         vicug-l@maelstrom.stjohns.edu, janina@afb.net
>> In-Reply-To: <000a01bdf13c$b2f25680$e9557392@ChuckNECVersa.cast.org>
>> References: <3.0.5.32.19981006093811.007ca100@pophost>
>> Sender: owner-webwatch-l@smtp.teleport.com
>> Reply-To: webwatch-l@smtp.teleport.com
>> Precedence: bulk
>
>> Hi Chuck,
>> 
>> I think you checked Toys for Blind and Visually Impaired Children with
>> Bobby  after they make their pages accessible. They now have add ALT tags
>> to the menu options and in my opinion this website is NOW ACCESSIBLE.
>> Thanks to the AFB, members of these listing and those people working behind
>> the discussion and help to make this website accessible. 
>> Let we all learn for the future and try to get more websites accessible.
>> Websites where no blind organizations are involved.
>> 
>> But there are some unsolved questions remaining?
>> I think it is important that a standard message becomes available that
>> individual visitors of an inaccessible website can send to the webmaster to
>> ask him or her to make such a website accessible. A message that give the
>> webmaster short information about the problems of the disabled accessing
>> the web and how they can solve it.
>> I have the knowledge creating such a message, but english is not my native
>> language and too poor to do it. 
>> 
>>  Bobby is a good feature and I often use it. But there are some webmasters
>> I can not ask to use Bobby to check their website, because Bobby said
>> Congratulations there are no accessibility errors. You can see an example
>> at http://www.vpro.nl. This website is realy inaccessible. 
>> 
>> There are websites that are not accessible because the designer didn't know
>> enough about accessibility. But there are also webdesigners who know their
>> websites are not accessible but say it is commercial not of interest to
>> make these websites accessible for all kind of browsers. In practice this
>> means that people who can not handle images and image maps can not access
>> these websites.
>> Why don't we make a black list for such unwilling websites owners?
>> 
>> Regards Peter Verhoeven
>> Internet : http://www.plex.nl/~pverhoe (The Screen Magnifiers Homepage)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> At 11:19 6-10-98 -0400, you wrote:
>> >Peter,
>> >
>> >I don't disagree at all with your statement regarding Bobby.  An
electronic
>> >validator can only do so much although we are able to check most of the
>> priority
>> >one items from the W3C Web Accessibility Initiative working guidelines. If
>> you
>> >run Bobby on the toy site, or most any site for that matter, you will
notice
>> >that there are many additional recommendations and tips provided by Bobby.
>> These
>> >are over and above Bobby approved but do require attention.
>> >
>> >By the way, we cannot know what combination of browsers, screen readers,
>> >magnifiers, single and multiple switch controls, and other adaptive
>> hardware and
>> >software will be in use by an individual user so I agree that we cannot
>> really
>> >say that a web page or any digital environment is truly accessible for
every
>> >possible situation.
>> >
>> >Chuck
>> >
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >From: owner-webwatch-l@lists.teleport.com
>> >[mailto:owner-webwatch-l@lists.teleport.com]On Behalf Of Peter Verhoeven
>> >Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 1998 3:38 AM
>> >To: webwatch-l@smtp.teleport.com; webwatch-l@smtp.teleport.com;
>> >easi@maelstrom.stjohns.edu; vcug-l@maelstrom.stjohns.edu;
>> >lowvis@maelstrom.stjohns.edu; webwatch-l@teleport.com
>> >Subject: RE: webwatch-l Toys for the Blind and visual impaired children
>> >inaccessable
>> >
>> >
>> >Hi Chuck,
>> >
>> >If you say that this homepage is quiet accessible it says more about
Bobby,
>> >than about this website. You are right that the problem is that ALT tags
>> >are missing and I argued before that this website was not accessible
>> >because there were no ALT tags. As Lynx user you can click on a menu item
>> >without description and see there what the menu option was. The website is
>> >accessible if the blind users get the same menu as the sighted people.
>> >I found Bobby a good tool, but you can never say the website is accessible
>> >because this tool said so.
>> >It is true that the website Toys for Blind and Visualy Impaired Children
>> >can be made accessible in 15 minutes. This is what I wrote in my message.
>> >
>> >Regards Peter Verhoeven
>> >Internet : http://www.plex.nl/~pverhoe (The Screen Magnifiers Homepage)
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >At 22:21 5-10-98 -0400, Chuck Hitchcock wrote:
>> >>I just checked the Toys site with our Bobby validator and discovered that
>> the
>> >>home page is quite accessible but that most of the other pages, if not
all
>> >>others, do need alt text and few additional improvements.  You can try
this
>> >>yourself by going directly to http://www.cast.org/bobby.  Type in the toy
>> >site
>> >>URL or any other ULR such as http://www.plex.nl/~pverhoe and click the
>> submit
>> >>button.
>> >>
>> >>Our free web access validator is available to the Toy Manufacturers
>> >Association
>> >>so someone might consider sending this information along to them to help
>> with
>> >>the effort required to make the site accessible.
>> >>
>> >>Chuck
>> >>
>> >>****
>> >>Chuck Hitchcock, Director
>> >>Universal Design Lab (UDL)and
>> >>Product Development,
>> >>CAST, Inc.,
>> >>39 Cross Street, Peabody, MA 01960
>> >>Voice 978 531-8555
>> >>TTY 978 531-3110
>> >>Fax 978 531-0192
>> >><http://cast.org/>
>> >><http://cast.org/bobby/>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>-----Original Message-----
>> >>From: owner-webwatch-l@lists.teleport.com
>> >>[mailto:owner-webwatch-l@lists.teleport.com]On Behalf Of Peter Verhoeven
>> >>Sent: Friday, October 02, 1998 3:35 AM
>> >>To: easi@maelstrom.stjohns.edu; vcug-l@maelstrom.stjohns.edu;
>> >>lowvis@maelstrom.stjohns.edu; webwatch-l@teleport.com
>> >>Subject: webwatch-l Toys for the Blind and visual impaired children
>> >>inaccessable
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>Hi all,
>> >>
>> >>Today I visit the homepage of "Toys for children who are blind or
visually
>> >>impaired". After loading this page I got tears my visually impaired eyes.
>> >>Not because I was glad that such important information for the kids and
>> >>their parent was on the web, but because of because the pages are not
>> >>accessible!
>> >>The tears in my eyes changes to a real river after I read that the
American
>> >>Foundation of the Blind has to do something with this website.
>> >>It is not my daily job to visit websites and analyse them to see if they
>> >>are accessible. But I'm doing this on a volunteerly base. I try to give
>> >>people information about how they can make their webpages more accessible
>> >>for everybody. I do this on my The Screen Magnifiers Homepage, that has a
>> >>special Accessibility corner and I do that as co-editor of a Dutch e-zine
>> >>about accessibility.
>> >>I can understand that a lot of webpages on the Internet are not
accessible
>> >>because the webmaster have not the knowledge about accessibility. But
I can
>> >>not understand, that a website created on the subject of toys for people
>> >>who are blind or visually impaired can be so inaccessible and I can not
>> >>understand that a blind organisation like the American Foundation for the
>> >>Blind can agree with such an inaccessible website?
>> >>It seems to me that the American Foundation for the Blind has no idea
what
>> >>the problems are for visually impaired people regarding access to the
>> >>Internet.
>> >>
>> >>What is wrong with this website?
>> >>
>> >>If you disable your browser loading images or use a text-oriented browser
>> >>like Lynx or Net-Tamer you only see IMAGE IMAGE IMAGE in the menu.
>> >>They "forget" to use ALT tags with that images. I think it takes 15
minutes
>> >>to make this website accessible. I could not find an E-Mail address for
>> >>feedback.
>> >>
>> >>If somebody knows who is responsible for this website? Please forwared
them
>> >>this message.
>> >>You can find the website at:
>> >>   http://www.toy-tma.com/PUBLICATIONS/guide97/index.html
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>Regards Peter Verhoeven
>> >>Internet http://www.plex.nl/~pverhoe (The Screen Magnifiers Homepage)
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> 
>
>

Received on Thursday, 8 October 1998 03:02:18 UTC