- From: Mike Paciello <paciello@webable.com>
- Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 17:49:25 -0500
- To: "Al Gilman" <asgilman@iamdigex.net>, "Jutta Treviranus" <jutta.treviranus@utoronto.ca>, <w3c-wai-au@w3.org>
I'll take a stab at this later...I'm in the middle of two more books and a thousand other projects. Frankly, we need to focus on simplifying the explanation. Short, simple, concise statements work. Mike > -----Original Message----- > From: Al Gilman [mailto:asgilman@iamdigex.net] > Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 5:42 PM > To: Jutta Treviranus; w3c-wai-au@w3.org > Cc: paciello@webable.com > Subject: RE: [webwatch] Visa Paralympics accessible site > > > At 02:22 PM 2002-01-29 , Jutta Treviranus wrote: > >I agree as well. Can you propose some additional or alternative > >wording for the techniques to reflect the points you are making? > > > > I am not sure that this is language that drops straight into the > document, but > the elevator speech I have queued up on this is roughly as follows: > > <two-liner> > > To know that the ALT text for something is wrong, it usually > suffices to notice > that the ALT attribute has not been declared at all. To know > that the ALT text > is right, it takes reviewing it in a view that communicates the flow of a > speech rendering as it passes through the text to be inserted. > In context, and > without layout artifacts which distract from the flow of how it > will be read by > the screen reader. > > </two-liner> > > <more flabby blather> > > The trick is to get an author, most likely a full-vision > individual with highly > developed visual focus for web design, to grok the verbal flow > that one would > get in speech rendering. Usually all this takes is an alternate visual > rendering that presents the text in a fashion that reflects the > reading flow. > The Lynx layout, or the text view in Home Page Reader are conspicuous > examples. <unverified>It is probably not necessary that people > shut their eyes > or hear the text read to get the point.</unverified> Common > blunders include: > inserting an ALT that creates a stammer, which reproduces text > that will appear > just before or after the ALT anyway; and saying 'link' as the > first word in the > ALT text of an image link. The latter is not good because the > screen reader > will know that a link is a link from the markup and will tell > the user that by > saying 'link' just before reading the link text. > > </more flabby blather> > > Possible techniques: > > a) [If editing in a three-panel display of synchronized views: > outline view > down left column, full graphical formatted view in upper right pane, > Fixed-text-size 'text view' in lower right.] > Pop the author to the text view to cue them to insert the text > in that view. > > b) simplified version of this: popup ALT text capture is not into a bare > textEditBox but rather to an insertion point inside a > [five-line?] fragment of > a text view centered on where the ALT will fall. > > c) emulate TV crawl. Crawl (b) onto the screen in a one-line > full-width layout > rectangle and pause for entry when the ALT-insertion point gets front and > center. > > Possible document includes: > > Home Page Reader screen shot. Amaya screen shot. > > Actually, I think that it takes a tightly coupled one-two punch: > "How to write > good ALT text" stuff fit for authors and "How to help authors > write good ALT > text" extensions of the discussion for tool builders. The latter to be > consumed in the company of the former. Simply having a hyperlink, > unfortunately doesn't suffice to get people to read something else. > > Whoever writes this up should please revisit Alan Flavell's ALT > text page, and > mine, too which is at > > affective messaging and effective mode-crossing (desc example) > http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-tech-comments/2001Aug/0001.html > > And probably the section of Mike's book that deals with this. > > Al > > > >Jutta > > > >>At 08:48 AM 2002-01-29 , Mike Paciello wrote: > >>>I have noticed that these dual links with ALT are a popular > design trend. I > >>>believe it's based on the misunderstanding of ALT text use. > "We" have been > >>>preaching the need for ALT text on images for so long, that > designers are > >>>including it on every instance and forgetting usability. > >>> > >>>I think we need to do a better job of educating the > designers. Simple as > >>>that. > >>> > >> > >>Yes, but why is it that designers have to be repeatedly told [this]? > >> > >>It is a megatrend and the bane of my existence. > >> > >>They are following a context-free rule that only takes linear > thinking. Here > >>is an IMG, supply an ALT. All they did was to follow that rule > >>without looking > >>around. They ignore the context. > >> > >>The better ALT would consider the context in a linear reading. > >> > >>But from the work-situation of the visual designer willing to > JustDoIt for a > >>few rules imposed by the boss, that is a radical step beyone what they > >>understand they have to do. > >> > >>My consulting linguist tells me "in English we are rapidly losing > constructive > >>morphology." The ability to have people understand a new word you > >>put together > >>because you put it together following "the rules." > >> > >>There is a strong preference in the JustDoIt culture for > extreme locality of > >>reference; not to have to look around or consider anything but > what is dead > >>ahead of you. This is what I mean is a megatrend. Don't know > when or if > this > >>trend will turn around. > >> > >>For effective education and outreach, to get the design > constraint we wish to > >>be effective in the designer's understanding we have to put > the form of the > >>fluency constraint graphically under their nose. This can be done > >>with Lynx or > >>Home Page Reader or you name it. But the authoring process > has to present > the > >>author with the text content in a geometry which makes the repetition > obvious, > >>and makes it look like a mistake. It is not enough to > verbalize an abstract > >>pattern in their ear. We need to use all the senses they have > and habitually > >>respond to, to impress on them the geometry of the problem, > that the words > >>should flow. > >> > >>Sadly, the documentation of techniques for authoring tools has > lost sight of > >>this master principle. > >> > >> Techniques for Authoring Tool Accessibility > >> > <<http://www.w3.org/TR/ATAG10-TECHS/#check-provide-missing-alt>ht > tp://www.w3 > .org/TR/ATAG10-TECHS/#check-provide-missing-alt><http://www.w/>ht > tp://www.w > >>3.org/TR/ATAG10-TECHS/#check-provide-missing-alt > >> > >> > >>Al > >> > >>>Mike > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: Kelly Ford > [<<mailto:kelly@kellford.com%5D>mailto:kelly@kellford.com%5D><mai > lto:kelly@ > kellford.com%5D>mailto:kelly@kellford.com] > >>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 8:35 AM > >>>> To: webwatch@yahoogroups.com > >>>> Subject: Re: [webwatch] Visa Paralympics accessible site > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Hi Phil, > >>>> > >>>> A couple things jump immediately out at me. These fall in the > >>>> category of making something really usable in my opinion. Rather > >>>> not doing them would make the site more usable. > >>>> > >>>> 1. Several of the links at the beginning of the page use alt text > >>>> phrasing of "this link goes to...". Just give me the name > of the link. > >>>> > >>>> 2. As you mention there are multiple instances of alt text and > >>>> then a link with the same name. To me this is where alt="" > >>>> should be used on a graphic that simply duplicates the text of a > >>>> link that is immediately after. > >>>> > >>>> Kelly > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> From: Phill Jenkins > >>>> To: webwatch@yahoogroups.com > >>>> Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 9:01 AM > >>>> Subject: [webwatch] Visa Paralympics accessible site > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Last week I saw a presentation from VISA about how they are > >>>> sponsoring the > >>>> Paralympics. They also claim to have made a lot of > progress on their > >>>> > <<http://www.visaparalympics.com/>http://www.visaparalympics.com/ > ><http://ww > w.visaparalympics.com/>http://www.visaparalympics.com site. > >>>> > >>>> I found the redundant use of alt text to be distracting. > Using Home > Page > >>>> Reader [1] VISA would be able to see & hear just what I mean, > >> >> for example > >>>> Overview Overview. Also, the main image of a skier with only > >>>> one leg was > >>>> not described. But, I really liked the used on skip > navigation and the > >>>> link at the bottom that jumps back to the top. It appears to meet > >>>> accessibility standards but could be tweaked to make it more > >>>> easy to use. > >>>> > >>>> What do others think? > >>>> > >>>> Regards, > >>>> Phill > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Yahoo! 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Received on Tuesday, 29 January 2002 18:50:16 UTC