W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > w3c-sgml-wg@w3.org > January 1997

Re: Using HyTime Arcform stuff (was Re: Ephemeral XML?)

From: Alex Milowski <lex@www.copsol.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 08:54:40 -0600 (CST)
Message-Id: <199701151454.IAA03960@copsol.com>
To: w3c-sgml-wg@www10.w3.org
Len Bullaard wrote:
> >    DSSSL is the only processing standard that this group is comitted to
> > produce. I stringly believe that we need to address CSS, and a way to pass
> > markup structures to Java applets via some kind of CSS and DSSSL bindings.
> > But that is not an argument for the moment, I think.

Groves provide the ability (availibility) to allows applets to access a grove
or the current grove (document).  

> Ok.  I am not sure many people understood the implication of a 
> commitment by the group to DSSSL bindings to Java applets.
> 1.  Getting DSSSL support will be as hard or harder to get
> than HyTime support.  

Unfortunate, but true.

> 2.  Java is a very slow object system.  Active X controls are more
> efficient if 
> less secure.  

Hmmm, I'm seeing as-good-as or better performance with *some* JIT compilers
in *some* cases.  This means the technology is catching up.  Besides, Java
means everyone can play--not just people who but their operating systems
from Microsoft.  Don't get me wrong... NT is my *desktop* system.

> I think the implementation of an Active-X control 
> for XML used in conjunction with a Visual Basic framework will 
> be rather nice.  Better than the RTF control anyway.  Something 
> similar to Peter Murray-Rust's CML application.  But that is 
> just the application engineer thinking.  Almost everything 
> people *hate* about SGML or think they hate, is there in 
> XML, so selling it based on a simplification of SGML won't 
> be very successful.  An application is always easier to sell.
> Every other day, I get a phone call from someone who states 
> that in their informed opinion, the only thing SGML or XML 
> are good for are print applications.  So, when we use a term 
> like stylesheet, we are predisposing some to accept that argument.
> That is why I mention it.

Application development environments are extremely important.  Currently, we
have two XML specific parsers written in Java, we have SP which does it
all, we have Jade, we have Techno Teacher's HyMinder grove implementation, and
(when I release it in *beta* real soon) we will have SEng/DSSSL environment for
SGML and DSSSL written in Java.

We have some good application-oriented engineering going on that should allow
mortals (not-people-on-this-list) to develop XML applications.

We need.....   the killer app!

What is it, beyond everything that you and I and everyone else wants out of
XML, that will demonstrate to the whole world what XML is about and that we can
each put on our respective web servers?  A Java applet that does something
with XML?  A Jade/SP/Thingy that does something cool.

We need something simple that will demonstrate *why* others need XML.

R. Alexander Milowski     http://www.copsol.com/   alex@copsol.com
Copernican Solutions Incorporated                  (612) 379 - 3608
Received on Wednesday, 15 January 1997 09:55:31 UTC

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