- From: James David Mason <masonjd@ornl.gov>
- Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 00:10:40 -0500
- To: "Deborah A. Lapeyre" <dlapeyre@mulberrytech.com>
- Cc: Michael Sperberg-McQueen <U35395@UICVM.UIC.EDU>, W3C SGML Working Group <w3c-sgml-wg@w3.org>
At 11:19 AM 11/9/96 -0800, Deborah A. Lapeyre wrote: > >Special spaces are, among other things, a rather old-fashioned typographic >technique for inserting a "known" amount of space in a location. The >advantage of em-space and en-space (and thin and the like) is that, if >your composition device allows it, these can be both clearly specified >and font variable. (I.E., My em-space in 36 point Bodini bold not just a >generic 12-pt em.) > >ASCII (currently) makes a distinction between "whitespace" (spaces and >tabs) and special characters that happen to resolve to a space on display. >Some of these are measured amounts of space (en, em, thin, digit, .. ). >Some of these are behaviors, such as "hard-space" or "non breaking space". >There hasn't been a problem because SGML tools do not treat   as >a space, and wouldn't even CONSIDER compressing "    " >into " " although " " is compressed to " ". > >General thoughts: > >1) At least as used in the past, an author intends for special spaces never >to go away or be replaced by a "space". > >2) How relevant is any of this to screen display? How >relevant is any of this to Unicode now? > >3) If all spaces translate to "space", then who cares? If the special >spaces are individual characters (a la Unicode) then they are not >"spaces" at all. Are there any "spaces" that are not characters? > >(I'm floundering here; these spaces have tied my tongue, but I know what I >mean. Can anyone rescue here?) > >--Debbie Lapeyre I'm pretty spacey after a day of standards meetings, but I second what I think I hear Debbie saying here. There is "whitespace" which composition systems, as well as SGML processors, have traditionally thrown away. Then there is space which is special and which I don't want any system to mess with. To Debbie's list I add the spaces that are part of the rhetoric of mathematics, such as the one before the "dx" in an integral. And what about italic correction? That's space that sometimes the user adds, but that may also be added by a good composition system like TeX. I've always been uneasy about SGML's handling of space, which seems overly fussy from certain programming perspectives but unnecessary and downright confusing from a user-interface perspective. (Sitting through a couple of hours of discussions about the character-coding parts of the SGML Declaration is good for reinforcing the suspicion that we work hard at making things hard for ourselves. Hearing some notable parser writers' comments on their sufferings tends to reinforce that suspicion.) A lot of screen displays certainly aren't good enough to reproduce the old typographers' use of space, but I don't think the issue will go away. The mathematicians continue to use TeX because of its capabilities for typographic expression, in spite of the rise of WYSIWYG systems. After a few years of MacTacky, we've seen a return to concern for well-designed fonts. I suspect that concern for spacing will return, too, as display technology improves. Jim Mason Dr. James D. Mason (ISO/IEC JTC1/SC18/WG8 Convenor) Lockheed Martin Energy Systems Information Management Services SGML Systems Development 1060 Commerce Park, M.S. 6480 Oak Ridge, TN 37831-6480 U.S.A. Telephone: +1 423 574-6973 Facsimile: +1 423 574-0004 Network: masonjd@ornl.gov http://www.ornl.gov/sgml/wg8/wg8home.htm
Received on Tuesday, 12 November 1996 00:11:00 UTC