- From: Graham Klyne <gk@ninebynine.org>
- Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 15:19:13 +0100
- To: Brian McBride <bwm@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
- Cc: Martin Duerst <duerst@w3.org>, rdf core <w3c-rdfcore-wg@w3.org>, i18n <w3c-i18n-ig@w3.org>
Brian, I'm with you so far. I think you've picked up my concern. I wait to see where this goes. (Regarding Dave's comments, I agree with him, but I don't think it impacts the underlying debate. Suggest s|<em>|<em/>| for ongoing discussion. #g -- At 10:45 29/07/03 +0100, Brian McBride wrote: >On Tue, 2003-07-29 at 00:35, Graham Klyne wrote: > >[...] > > > >Their representations are different. But why do their denotations > > >have to be different? > >[...] > > > >But note that we are not speaking about changing the interpretation > > >of something by changing from plain literal to XML literal, we are > > >speaking about two different representations ((1) and (2)) that > > >could/should denote the same string of characters. > > > > I thought about that, but within the current scheme couldn't see any > way to > > make it work, for the reason noted above. > > > > I don't think I've anything more constructive to add at this stage, and > > should back off. Maybe someone else can see a way past the block that I > > perceive? > >I haven't followed this thread in detail, so may be off base, but in >this last message I see something that may be relevant. > >Martin's use of the terms "interpretation" and denotation may be >different to ours, as suggested elsewhere by Pat. Perhaps we have not >made clear, what I'll loosely call the substition rule. > >Martin, the issue is one of round tripping. Given the following input: > ><rdf:Description> > <eg:prop rdf:parseType="Literal"><em></eg:prop> ></rdf:Description> > >If the xml literal *denotes* the character string "<em>", and in, > ><rdf:Description> > <eg:prop><em></eg:prop> ></rdf:Description> > >the plain literal also denotes the character string "<em>", then it is >legal for an RDF processor to substitute one for another, e.g. an RDF >copy program could read the first of these and write the second because >their semantics, according to RDF, are exactly the same. > >I don't think anyone wants that. > >Martin: does the "substitution rule" explain why the denotations must be >different? > >Now, Martin may have spotted something we have missed. I suggest a way >to describe this clearly. We have three concepts, concrete syntax >(rdf/xml), abstract syntax (closest rep is n-triples) and denotation. >This can be described in a three column table, concrete syntax, abstract >syntax and denotation. > >I think what we have at the moment is: > >Concrete Syntax | Abstract Syntax | Denotation >----------------------------------------------------------------- ><eg:prop>a</eg:prop> | "a" | "a" ><eg:prop><em></eg:prop> | "<em>" | "<em>" ><eg:prop pt="L"><em></eg:prop> | "<em>^^rdf:XMLLiteral | C("<em>") ><eg:prop pt="L">&</eg:prop> | "&"^^rdf:XMLLiteral | C("&") > >I've abbreviated rdf:parseType="Literal" to pt="L" to fit on one line. >C(x) is cannonicalization of x, encoded as a UTF8 octet sequence, e.g. >C("&") is the octet sequence corresponding to "&". >The relationship between the abstract syntax and the denotation must be >functional - i.e. there is only one denotation (per interpretation) for >any given fragment of abstract syntax. > >The point I made above, is that for any two rows with the same value in >the denotation column, it doesn't matter what form of concrete syntax >one uses - they have equivalent meaning and one can be freely >substituted for the other. > >Brian ------------------- Graham Klyne <GK@NineByNine.org> PGP: 0FAA 69FF C083 000B A2E9 A131 01B9 1C7A DBCA CB5E
Received on Tuesday, 29 July 2003 11:27:26 UTC