- From: Jeremy Carroll <jjc@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
- Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 23:02:20 +0000
- To: w3c-rdfcore-wg@w3.org
Minutes - RDF Core WG - Telecon 30 November 2001 ================================================ Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2001Nov/0641.html Summary: DECISION 2001-11-30#1 Frank Manola will co-edit the Primer. DECISION 2001-11-30#2 Jan Grant will co-edit the Test Cases WD. DECISION 2001-11-30#3 Reserve use of names in the rdf namespace as in agenda. DECISION 2001-11-30#4 'Delete' para 196 from Syntax WD. ACTION 2001-11-30#1 Dan Connolly: Review rdfs-transitive-subSubProperty test cases. ACTION 2001-11-30#2 Pat Hayes: Review rdfs-transitive-subSubProperty test cases. ACTION 2001-11-30#3 Jan Grant: Get access to test case areas of W3C site. ACTION 2001-11-30#4 Dave Beckett: Create test cases covering reserved use of rdf names in this proposal. ACTION 2001-11-30#5 Dave Beckett: Create test case showing that the 2nd URL in Para 196 is permitted. ACTION 2001-11-30#6 Mike Dean: Sumamrise Joint Committee position, confirm with them, circulate to us. ACTION 2001-11-30#7 Pat Hayes: Write up P for inclusion in Sergey's document. ACTION 2001-11-30#8 Dan Connolly: Write up Perl datatyping proposal as e-mail to group. ACTION 2001-11-30#9 Jeremy Carroll: Write up XML Schema structures datatyping proposal as e-mail to group. Note: We had frequent technical problems with the irc channel. The attached log is incomplete, and has non-irc notes appended. I believe that I did not get all the irc messages even before I lost connectivity. 1: Allocate scribe Jeremy Carroll 2: Roll Call Present ------- Brian McBride Eric Miller Dave Beckett Dan Connolly Ron Daniel Jos De Roo Jan Grant Graham Klyne Frank Manola Stephen Petschulat Patrick Stickler Aaron Swartz Mike Dean Pat Hayes Sergey Melnik (for item 11 only) Absent ------ Frank Boumphrey Bill dehOra Rael Dornfest Yoshiyuki Kitahara Michael Kopchenov KWON, Hyung-Jin Ora Lassila Satoshi Nakamura Pierre Richard R.V. Guha Regrets ------- Dan Brickley Martyn Horner 3: Review Agenda No AOB. 4: Next telecon - 10am Boston time, 07 Dec 2001 5: Review Minutes of 2001-11-16 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2001Nov/0561.html No comments, minutes approved. 6: Status of Primer Eric requested a coeditor for the Primer. DECISION 2001-11-30#1 Frank Manola will co-edit the Primer. 7: Status of Model Theory 2001-11-16#5 PatH Post updated copy of model theory, with datatype discussion elided, for group review by Wednesday 21-Nov-2001 Action continued. 8: Status of Syntax WD No progress. Dave Beckett hopes to have something by end of next week. 9: Issue: rdfs-transitive-subSubProperty Propose Approve test case ------------------------- Not considered since no-one has reviewed test cases. ACTION 2001-11-30#1 Dan Connolly: Review rdfs-transitive-subSubProperty test cases. ACTION 2001-11-30#2 Pat Hayes: Review rdfs-transitive-subSubProperty test cases. 10: Manifest Proposal Review Jans proposal. -------------------- Jos wants a distinction between rdfs and rdf entailment. Brian notes that this text belongs in the Test Cases WD. DECISION 2001-11-30#2 Jan Grant will co-edit the Test Cases WD. ACTION 2001-11-30#3 Jan Grant: Get access to test case areas of W3C site. 12: Issue #rdfms-rdf-names-use [[[ Propose the WG o Resolves that the use of rdf:RDF, rdf:ID, rdf:about, rdf:resource, rdf:bagID, rdf:parseType, rdf:aboutEach and rdf:li except as reserved names as specified in the grammar is an error. o resolves that test case http://www.w3.org/2000/10/rdf-tests/rdfcore/rdf-containers-syntax-vs-schema/test005.rdf be obsoleted o resolves that a copy of that test case be created as an error test case o actions DaveB to create test cases for the above cases o actions DaveB to identify any similar cases to those above and create test cases to cover them also ]]] --------- Jeremy Carroll asked for clarification that this still allows rdf:_NNN as a typed node. Dave Beckett indicated that it did. Dan Connolly seconded proposal. No objections to the proposal, no abstentions. ACTION 2001-11-30#4 Dave Beckett: Create test cases covering reserved use of rdf names in this proposal. DECISION 2001-11-30#3 Reserve use of names in the rdf namespace as in agenda. Para 196 -------- Eric and Ron who were both in the first WG, clarified that the second URL in para 196 is not a typo; but was intended to reserve namespace for future use. Jeremy Carroll seconded Dave Beckett's e-mail proposal that para 196 be dropped. Discussion. DECISION 2001-11-30#4 'Delete' para 196 from Syntax WD. [Scribe pedantic note: while the discussion was in terms of deleting this paragraph, since it is in a different document, it is more a question of not including it]. ACTION 2001-11-30#5 Dave Beckett: Create test case showing that the 2nd URL in Para 196 is permitted. 11: Datatypes Action 2001-11-16#9 FrankM -------------------------- Continued. Action 2001-11-16#10 Jeremy WebOnt working group. --------------------------- Done - but no meaningful response - too early in WOW-G process. Action 2001-11-16#11 MikeD DAML+OIL joint committee. -------------------------- Both Pat Hayes and Mike Dean reported back from the Joint Committee. Apparant summary: P preferred, then U, then S, which could be lived with. ACTION 2001-11-30#6 Mike Dean: Sumamrise Joint Committee position, confirm with them, circulate to us. Review Sergey's document and status of ongoing discussions. ---------------------------------------------------------- Many positive comments on Sergey's document. General discussion: particularly about Perl datatyping, and its relationship to Jena and Squish datatyping. Brian observes that there is increasing support for something other than S. ACTION 2001-11-30#7 Pat Hayes: Write up P for inclusion in Sergey's document. ACTION 2001-11-30#8 Dan Connolly: Write up Perl datatyping proposal as e-mail to group. ACTION 2001-11-30#9 Jeremy Carroll: Write up XML Schema structures datatyping proposal as e-mail to group. The meeting ended as the bridge died. 13: Issue rdfms-aboutEach NOT REACHED 14: Issue: rdfms-assertion NOT REACHED 15: Semantics of Reification - what progress NOT REACHED My own log of the IRC, followed by rough notes: ============================================== *** jjc (jjc@dhcp-07.ilrt.bris.ac.uk) has joined #rdfcore *** Topic is: RDF Core Telecon: 10AM EST | sagan.openprojects.net in case of instability | +1 630 536 3003 room #3003 *** Topic set by AaronSw on Fri Nov 30 2:59 PM *** bwm (bwm@dhcp-10.ilrt.bris.ac.uk) has joined #rdfcore *** xena (xena@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #rdfcore <AaronSw> .time <em> +pat <xena> 2001/11/30 15:00:04.85716 Universal * AaronSw dials <em> +ericm <em> +ron <em> +steve *** gk (~GK@host213-120-28-173.webport.bt.net) has joined #rdfcore <dajobe> +bwm, jjc, jan, dave *** Mode change [+o bwm] on #rdfcore by ChanServ *** spetschu (spetschu@24.83.162.109) has joined #rdfcore *** spetschu (spetschu@24.83.162.109) has left IRC [niven.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net] *** dajobe (~cmdjb@tatooine.ilrt.bris.ac.uk) has left IRC [niven.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net] *** logger_2 (~rdfcore-l@tatooine.ilrt.bris.ac.uk) has left IRC [niven.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net] *** AaronSw (aaronsw@mewtwo.espnow.com) has left IRC [niven.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net] *** em (~em@dhcp065-024-049-132.columbus.rr.com) has left IRC [niven.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net] *** xena (xena@mewtwo.espnow.com) has left IRC [niven.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net] * gk dialing... *** em (~em@dhcp065-024-049-132.columbus.rr.com) has joined #rdfcore *** xena (xena@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #rdfcore *** AaronSw (aaronsw@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #rdfcore *** Mode change [+oo em AaronSw] on #rdfcore by niven.openprojects.net * AaronSw reconnects *** AaronSw (aaronsw@mewtwo.espnow.com) has left IRC [Remote closed the connection] *** dajobe (~cmdjb@tatooine.ilrt.bris.ac.uk) has joined #rdfcore *** logger_2 (~rdfcore-l@tatooine.ilrt.bris.ac.uk) has joined #rdfcore *** Mode change [+o dajobe] on #rdfcore by niven.openprojects.net *** jjc is now known as jjcscribe *** DanC (~connolly@adsl-208-190-203-68.dsl.kscymo.swbell.net) has joined #rdfcore * DanC switches to sagan... *** AaronSw` (aaronsw@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #rdfcore *** DanC (~connolly@adsl-208-190-203-68.dsl.kscymo.swbell.net) has left #rdfcore *** Mode change [-oo dajobe em] on #rdfcore by ChanServ *** Mode change [-o bwm] on #rdfcore by ChanServ [jjcscribe] 1: jjc is scribe *** DanC (~connolly@adsl-208-190-203-68.dsl.kscymo.swbell.net) has joined #rdfcore <em> agenda -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2001Nov/0641.html [jjcscribe] Agenda 2: Roll Call *** spetschu (spetschu@24.83.162.109) has joined #rdfcore [jjcscribe] reghrets DanB [jjcscribe] Brian pres [jjcscribe] Eric Present * AaronSw` whistles a well known melody. aaronsw <AaronSw`> Hmm. [jjcscribe] +DaveB [jjcscribe] -FrankB [jjcscribe] +Jeremy [jjcscribe] Reg DanC [jjcscribe] +RonD [jjcscribe] -BillD [jjcscribe] +Jos [jjcscribe] -Rael [jjcscribe] +Jan [jjcscribe] reg martin [jjcscribe] -yoshi [jjcscribe] +graham [jjcscribe] -MichaelK [jjcscribe] -Kwon *** AaronSw` is now known as AaronSw [jjcscribe] -Ora [jjcscribe] +FrankM [jjcscribe] -satoshi [jjcscribe] +steve [jjcscribe] -PiereR [jjcscribe] +PatrickS [jjcscribe] +Aaron [jjcscribe] -MikeD [jjcscribe] -Guha [jjcscribe] +PatH *** em (~em@dhcp065-024-049-132.columbus.rr.com) has left IRC [niven.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net] *** xena (xena@mewtwo.espnow.com) has left IRC [niven.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net] [jjcscribe] -Sergey [jjcscribe] +MikeD *** em (~em@dhcp065-024-049-132.columbus.rr.com) has joined #rdfcore [jjcscribe] +danC *** JosD (nobody@un.impressive.net) has joined #rdfcore [jjcscribe] 3: Review Agenda [jjcscribe] No AOB [jjcscribe] 4: Minutes [jjcscribe] No comments [jjcscribe] Minutes approved [jjcscribe] 6: Status of Primer * DanC dials in... <AaronSw> +Pat -Sergey <DanC> ouch; no sergey? *** mdean (~mdean@hh1114013.direcpc.com) has joined #rdfcore *** mdean is now known as mdean_ <AaronSw> Hmm, I'm seeing a lot of lagg. [jjcscribe] Eric would like help - coownership. [jjcscribe] Eric would like co or primary editor [jjcscribe] Eric rejects casual offers of help [jjcscribe] Eric wants serious help! [jjcscribe] FrankM volunteers has co-editor [jjcscribe] Decision: FrankM is co-editing Primer * gk test <DanC> test... this logged? <AaronSw> yes [jjcscribe] 7: Model Theory <AaronSw> Model Theory Status <AaronSw> Pat: sorry, i'm late... i think i'll the thing i promised by next ?? [jjcscribe] Pat is late, ... action continued. [jjcscribe] 8: Syntax <AaronSw> Syntax Status [jjcscribe] DaveB: No Progress [jjcscribe] DaveB: TestCases is published. <AaronSw> Dave: i now have 2 WDs and i need some help <AaronSw> bwm: let's stick to syntax <AaronSw> dajobe: gonna spend some time next week on this [jjcscribe] DaveB hopes to have something by end of next week <AaronSw> ... hope to have something to next week for the WG. [jjcscribe] Will have stuff that emits triples <AaronSw> dajobe: have to finish writing out the rules, sketch out more sections (reification, aboutEach, etc.) <AaronSw> ... write some introductory material <DanC> pointer to current syntax WD editor's copy? (is there a pointer on the WG home?) <dajobe> yes [jjcscribe] 9: rdfs-transitive-subProperty <AaronSw> Approving Jos' Test Case [jjcscribe] Nobody has reviewed <AaronSw> no one yet approved it... <AaronSw> ACTION DanC, PatH take a look at the test case. [jjcscribe] Action: PatH to review rdfs-transitive-subProperty [jjcscribe] Action:DanC to review rdfs-transitive-subProperty [jjcscribe] 10: Manifest Proposal <AaronSw> Jan: manifest proposal <DanC> would the keybard-monster pls mute? *** mdean_ (~mdean@hh1114013.direcpc.com) has left IRC [niven.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net] *** DanC (~connolly@adsl-208-190-203-68.dsl.kscymo.swbell.net) has left IRC [niven.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net] *** spetschu (spetschu@24.83.162.109) has left IRC [niven.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net] *** AaronSw (aaronsw@mewtwo.espnow.com) has left IRC [niven.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net] *** logger_2 (~rdfcore-l@tatooine.ilrt.bris.ac.uk) has left IRC [niven.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net] *** dajobe (~cmdjb@tatooine.ilrt.bris.ac.uk) has left IRC [niven.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net] [jjcscribe] Jos needs rdfs and rdf entailment clairifcation <gk> Jos has problems with lack of distinction between RDF entailment, RDFS entailment, etc [jjcscribe] Jan invites Jos to suggest modification, inventing test type *** mdean_ (~mdean@hh1114013.direcpc.com) has joined #rdfcore *** spetschu (spetschu@24.83.162.109) has joined #rdfcore *** DanC (~connolly@adsl-208-190-203-68.dsl.kscymo.swbell.net) has joined #rdfcore *** AaronSw (aaronsw@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #rdfcore *** dajobe (~cmdjb@tatooine.ilrt.bris.ac.uk) has joined #rdfcore *** logger_2 (~rdfcore-l@tatooine.ilrt.bris.ac.uk) has joined #rdfcore <AaronSw> ... also log:includes and log:notIncludes to work on <AaronSw> ... hoping that jan would unify, but I can take that over as well <AaronSw> bwm: where does this text belong? test cases wd? <AaronSw> ... who will edit that doc? [jjcscribe] Brian: we need an owner for test cases [jjcscribe] Brian asks Jan to co-edit Test Cases wd <AaronSw> Jan volunteers. [jjcscribe] Jan thinks he can edit it. <AaronSw> DanC: we have 3 mos. [jjcscribe] Jan will come back if he does not have enough time (in a week or two) <AaronSw> bwm: more an issue of having an owner than getting it out <AaronSw> jos: i'll help with technical things <AaronSw> jjc: important to keep test cases up-to-date <AaronSw> [ access considerations to W3C server ] <AaronSw> ACTION Jan: Give access to the Test Cases WD. [jjcscribe] Action Jan to get access to appropriate space on W3C site for Test Cases [jjcscribe] Dave asks for team contact support <AaronSw> s/Give/get/ <DanC> I think Jan's action is to request that Eric give him access. [jjcscribe] Action Jan to find out what is needed in terms of access [jjcscribe] Item 11 Datatypes *** JosD (nobody@un.impressive.net) has left IRC [niven.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net] *** em (~em@dhcp065-024-049-132.columbus.rr.com) has left IRC [niven.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net] [jjcscribe] Sergey still absent - postponed [jjcscribe] 12: rdfms-names-use [jjcscribe] seconded by DanC *** em (~em@dhcp065-024-049-132.columbus.rr.com) has joined #rdfcore <AaronSw> 12: RDF Names Use <AaronSw> 2nded by COnnolly <AaronSw> danc: rdf:_nn not special [jjcscribe] JJc asks if rdf:_NNN is strill allowed as tryped node <AaronSw> no objections, no abstentions [jjcscribe] daveB yes [jjcscribe] |Proposal agreed [jjcscribe] Action DaveB to create test cases <AaronSw> ACTION dajobe: take test cases [jjcscribe] P196? *** Server connection lost Dan indicates that P196 was to reserve namespace for future use. Brian: some have not implemented this at all some have assumed that it was a typo Jeremy reminds group that DaveB proposed dropping this para seonds proposal Dan wants to keep some record Pat suggests footnote Aaron points out this is the URI of M&S Action DaveB to create test case showing this name is not special Decision drop para 196 no dissent Dave points out no update of syntax doc is required. +Sergey 11. Datatypes Action 11-16#9 continued 11-16#10 done - but no responses since too early 11-16#11 with DAML+OIL Pat: indicates that Patel-Schneider believes that blank node proposals (incl S) violate current XML practice The use of range specs is common and is a good thing. Brian indicates that this includes lexical mappings. PatH issues to do with union datatypes and lexical mappings Can of worms. P preferred, U could be accomodate, S could be lived with. Action Mike to summarise joint committee position, confirm with them, get back to us Sergey's doc ------------ Dan: "great", Graham's stuff should be incorporated. Dan gives overview of Perl typing. Jena & Squish take this view. PatH thinks of Perl as bcpl of thinking stops using type info as a constraint. patrick: appreciates Perl In perl using string comp is on lexical forms whereas int comp is on value leaves decision as to which space is left to operator Graham: propogramming languages stuff maybe misleading DanC: Perl documentation says there is one type "scalar" DanC reiterates e-mail about entailment Brian proposes we include something about P proposal Action Pat to write P proposal in . DanC will write up Perl approach DaveB and FrankB interested Jjc will write up Meeting cut off.
Received on Friday, 30 November 2001 17:57:23 UTC