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RE: How to sign several resources (XML and XSL)?

From: David Burdett <david.burdett@commerceone.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 20:53:14 -0700
Message-ID: <123B7EB05559D311B0D900A0C9EA3D762AD9D5@NEPTUNE>
To: DJ <jevans@differential.com>, "Winchel 'Todd' Vincent, III" <winchel@mindspring.com>, Andreas Siglreithmayr <andreas.siglreithmayr@ixos.de>, "W3c-Ietf-Xmldsig (E-mail)" <w3c-ietf-xmldsig@w3.org>
Cc: "IETF Trade (E-mail)" <ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com>
... and even perhaps a digitally signed copy of the PC and operating system
on which it was run ?

Seriously though, if it comes to a court case I believe it's all a question
of being able to demonstrate, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the facts are
true which is a subjective opinion. I therefore thing that you probably
don't need signed copies of:
- the PC
- the operating system
- the browser and, I would content
- the style sheet ...

... as long as the style sheet was widely and publically available from
several sources and it was generally accepted as being a reasonable
presentation of the information in the XML document.

... but then I'm not a lawyer.


-----Original Message-----
From: DJ [mailto:jevans@differential.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 1999 9:21 AM
To: David Burdett; Winchel 'Todd' Vincent, III; Andreas Siglreithmayr;
W3c-Ietf-Xmldsig (E-mail)
Cc: IETF Trade (E-mail)
Subject: RE: How to sign several resources (XML and XSL)?

But to present legally binding evidence at a future date you may need to
present the signed XML, the presentation (signed XSL) and perhaps even
the application that displayed it (a signed copy of Netscape??? or perhaps
the UWI.com forms browser?)


At 08:36 PM 9/22/99 -0700, David Burdett wrote:
>... otherwise how do you know the context for the XML data?
>You know the context because interpretation of the XML data is being done
>software from a presumably reliable source to do the interpretation that is
>built according to a specification that describes the semantics of data 
>... I now feel that we're getting very close to the topic of "trusted"
>applications  and I'm not sure we want to go there ...
>-----Original Message-----
>From: DJ [mailto:jevans@differential.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 1999 3:49 PM
>To: David Burdett; Winchel 'Todd' Vincent, III; Andreas Siglreithmayr;
>W3c-Ietf-Xmldsig (E-mail)
>Cc: IETF Trade (E-mail)
>Subject: RE: How to sign several resources (XML and XSL)?
>UWI.com has an XML implementation that signs the "presentation" (eg. the
>as well as the XML.  In their view, it is critically important to sign
>both, otherwise
>how do you know the context for the XML data?  
>At 02:45 PM 9/22/99 -0700, David Burdett wrote:
>>Following on from this I'm wondering what people's views are on signing an
>>XML document that is primarily an XML representation of a data structure
>>that is defined in a specification that is widely and publically
>>The XML document, in it's native form is readable but not easily
>>understandable. A style sheet would make the document easier to understand
>>but is not required since the semantics of the document are defined in the
>>specification. However could use of a stylesheet then be construed as
>>altering the meaning of the XML document as far as a recipient is
>>I ask since this is what IOTP effectively does, it signs several parts of
>>data structure (represented in XML) and then creates new data structures
>>from the orginal that are also digitally signed and, using additional
>>"endorsing" signatures, "binds" the new document back to the original.
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Winchel 'Todd' Vincent, III [mailto:winchel@mindspring.com]
>>Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 1999 1:43 AM
>>To: Andreas Siglreithmayr; W3c-Ietf-Xmldsig (E-mail)
>>Subject: Re: How to sign several resources (XML and XSL)?
>>> I think that if someone signs an XML-document, s/he would also have
>>>to sign the corresponding XSL file.
>>Other people on this list hold the very same opinion.  Indeed, as an
>>American lawyer, I believe there are very good legal reasons why *not*
>>signing the stylesheet might just get and XML document thrown out of court
>>if/when it were introduced into evidence.  Such a result would, of course,
>>make the technology much less valuable.
>>Thank you for your input.  I think having someone with a new and fresh
>>perspective helps to shed light on the simplicity and logic of the notion.
>>I wish others would see it so clearly.
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Received on Thursday, 23 September 1999 23:57:47 UTC

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