- From: Daniel Brotsky <dbrotsky@adobe.com>
- Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 16:06:51 -0800
- To: "Julian Reschke" <julian.reschke@gmx.de>
- Cc: "Jason Crawford" <ccjason@us.ibm.com>, "Clemm, Geoff" <gclemm@rational.com>, <w3c-dist-auth@w3c.org>, "Julian Reschke" <julian.reschke@gmx.de>
So I have followed Julian's advice and gone back and reviewed all the mail around this. Here's my interpretation: 1. There are only 5 people participating in this thread (Geoff, Julian, Lisa, Jason, and me). I note this only because it's worrisome to me to declare "consensus" based on such a small discussion. Also because it explains why the rest of this analysis actually names names, so to speak :^). 2. All 5 of us seem to feel that leaving DAV:owner alone and under the control of clients is the only thing that will allow existing clients to keep working. Conclusion: I think we have "consensus" that DAV:owner should be under client control and that the spec should state this. 3. Geoff and Julian seem to feel that we should "deprecate" DAV:owner, which I think means they want the spec to say that clients should not rely on the DAV:owner field. They argue that clients can not "interoperate" using this field because its value is unspecified. I strongly disagree with this, for reasons I've often stated but will reiterate briefly: I claim that having a "guaranteed dead" property writeable as part of a LOCK request is a very valuable feature of the protocol precisely because it allows clients to interoperate using conventions *outside* of the protocol. Conclusion: We don't have consensus about deprecating DAV:owner. 4. Lisa and I (more me than her, but maybe I convinced her :^) both seemed to feel that clients should have a way of asking about who owns a lock in order to figure out whether a discovered lock is owned by them. Geoff replied that, since we're leaving DAV:owner in the hands of the client, then presumably a client could use that field to determine whether he owned a lock. I take from Lisa's lack of response that she found that argument persuasive. I certainly did. (Geoff and maybe Julian also seemed to feel strongly that it's insecure for servers to give out this kind of information, but while I agree with this I don't think that argument is on point: we weren't talking about mandating it, just allowing it.) Conclusion: We have consensus that servers shouldn't have to tell clients who owns locks, and further that we don't need a standard way for clients to ask about this. 5. Geoff and Julian both seem to feel strongly that there should be some protocol-specified way for clients to communicate conventionally with each other about who owns a lock. They seem to feel that this was what DAV:owner was intended to be about in the first place, so I think they are both agreed about introducing DAV:lockowner as such a thing and deprecating DAV:owner. Jason seemed to find this proposal sensible given the conclusion of (2). Neither Lisa nor I have had anything to say about this. Conclusion: There's a proposal on the table to add DAV:lockowner that's probably linked to the proposal to deprecate DAV:owner. But there's been essentially no discussion of it, even by the 5 people who've been active so far. Bottom line: At this point, I think our two points of consensus are: 1. DAV:owner is owned by clients, and the spec should say this. 2. We are not going to add a way for clients to ask who owns a lock. I would suggest we close out this issue on that consensus. I have no objection to adding an issue about adding a DAV:lockowner field (based on Julian's proposal), but I have not seen any evidence that actual clients are asking for this; it seems to be more of a hygiene issue than anything else. dan -- Daniel Brotsky, Adobe Systems tel 408-536-4150, pager 877-704-4062 2-way pager email: <mailto:page-dbrotsky@adobe.com>
Received on Monday, 28 January 2002 19:07:29 UTC