- From: Yaron Goland <yarong@microsoft.com>
- Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 14:30:58 -0800
- To: "'Ron Daniel, Jr.'" <rdaniel@acl.lanl.gov>, w3c-dist-auth@w3.org
>>1) Neither headers or separate resources meet all the requirements on >> metadata in WEB-DAV, so we will need a combined solution. >Do you agree or disagree with that statement? I disagree. I believe that my proposal, which handles what Jim Whitehead has called "small chunk" meta-data, will completely meet the DAV group's needs. While I do believe that there is a strong need for a richer meta-data system I also believe that this group can produce a useful, fully interoperable standard, with nothing more than LINK/UNLINK and the META* methods. Yaron > -----Original Message----- > From: Ron Daniel, Jr. [SMTP:rdaniel@acl.lanl.gov] > Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 1997 10:00 AM > To: Yaron Goland; w3c-dist-auth@w3.org > Subject: Re: Meta Data Redux > > At 09:49 PM 3/18/97 -0800, Yaron Goland wrote: > > >Ron - Generic object model based meta-data handling [...] > > Is not what I am suggesting. > > > You seem very concerned that "overly general" solutions will take too > much time and require too much invention. You seem to think that by > "keeping it simple", namely using attribute/value headers, that the > group will be able to accomplish its task more quickly. This certainly > sounds reasonable, however, I believe it is wrong on several counts. > > First, the approach I suggest does not require a massive amount of > invention. LINKs, multipart/related, media types, and existing > metadata > formats can all be used. > > Second, I think the attribute/value approach is going to lead you > directly > into one of the IETF's most infamous ratholes - metadata hell. Here is > a rather detailed explanation of how. > > > Although the functionality of getting, setting, and deleting headers > is useful, it is not the minimum work that has to be accomplished for > interoperability. At some point this group is going to have to decide > on > a minimal set of headers. Some of them, such as Content-type, > Content-length, > etc. are already well-known and standardized already. Some, dealing > with > distributed authoring and versioning, are unavoidably in the remit of > this > group. No matter how much we wish they would go away, they are going > to > come back again and again until the group reaches rough consensus. > Some > of these "headers" look simple. What's so hard about "Author"? Why not > just use a comma-delimited list of strings and declare victory? > > Take a look at the return address of this message. If I put my name > into a > comma delimited list, it breaks. You get two authors, one of whom is > my > father. Changing the delimiter character doesn't help. One of my > friends > has a middle name with a ':' in it. No kidding. No doubt there are > people > who have ';' or any other character you want to use in their names. > (Honesty compels me to admit that I don't usually use the ',' in my > name, > but others do.) > > The point of that example is not to discuss "Author", it is to warn > you > that if you get into a discussion of "Author" it will not reach > consensus > for a long time. This is not the first IETF group that has > thought about headers like "Author". Every time they do, all sorts of > fun sub-topics, like direct vs. sorted order, international character > sets, > culture-dependent name orderings, etc. get raised. Then we get to talk > about > Title and discover that there are all sorts of titles out there > (former > title, translated title, main title, continued title, working title, > ...); > Subject (a *total* nightmare), other forms of contribution (Editor, > Illustrator, Compiler, Translator, ...) and on and on and on. I18N and > the use of non-English attribute names will probably put in yet > another > appearance during all these discussions, because they always have. > Talk about a total time sink. > > Or, just maybe, we can avoid that particular rathole by acknowledging > its > presence and taking a different tack. We don't specify those sorts of > headers. Instead we state that bibliographic descriptions, while of > great > interest to this group, are really SEP, and we merely want to use the > product of the deliberations of those other parties. What we do is > agree on one label, perhaps "DAV.bibliographic-description", and use > it > in LINKs to external resources. With multipart/related, we can send > the > source document and the external description around together if we > need. > We agree on a typing mechanism, namely IMTs, to allow people to use > different descriptive formats. Let the librarians define and use > application/marc, while newspapers use application/whatever-the-heck- > standard-newspapers-use. For broad interoperability in relatively > simple > situations, this group "blesses" one format and schema. It might be > SOIF, > it might be Dublin Core, it might be IAFA, it might be MARC for all I > know. > The vendors then get to go off and do their proprietary schemes, in > order to improve on the "blessed" on in various ways. Great. Just as > long > as ths group doesn't roll its own. The attempt to do so is where the > real time sink for this group lies. > > With that background, let me reiterate what I said yesterday: > > > >1) Neither headers or separate resources meet all the requirements on > > metadata in WEB-DAV, so we will need a combined solution. > > Do you agree or disagee with that statement? > > Ron Daniel Jr. voice:+1 505 665 0597 > Advanced Computing Lab fax:+1 505 665 4939 > MS B287 email:rdaniel@lanl.gov > Los Alamos National Lab http://www.acl.lanl.gov/~rdaniel > Los Alamos, NM, USA, 87545
Received on Wednesday, 19 March 1997 17:33:44 UTC