Re: CSV on the Web Community Group created

On 7 January 2016 at 06:16, Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org> wrote:

>
> > On 7 Jan 2016, at 07:10, Florian Rivoal <florian@rivoal.net> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Ivan,
> >
> > Thanks for the clarification.
> >
> > Even if notes and free form discussions are the main focus of the CG, as
> long as new features for REC track documents are still in scope, why not
> renew the charter instead?
>
> Having a WG just for possible new features, without any clear
> deliverables, but using W3C resources is not really a good idea. A CG has
> the flexibility that WG does not have in focusing in on new issues and
> directions, it does not rely on W3C membership to be joined (in contrast to
> WG-s), etc.
>
> It may very well be that the CG will come with a clearer proposed mandate
> for a rechartering, eventually. If that is there, then a re-chartering may
> become a possibility at that point. In the meantime, the much more flexible
> forum like the CG seems to be more efficient.
>

There may be some usability issues with the structure of the Community
Group site here: although the description of the CG is pretty broad, I took
care to also include a clarifying comment beneath the group proposal
yesterday along the lines Ivan explains here. "As the WG is closing soon"
etc.; however I cannot see a way to find that comment now, either from
https://www.w3.org/community/groups/proposed/ (which is empty because the
group has been created) or from https://www.w3.org/community/csvw/  --- I
don't know if those comments are lost, or just hidden somewhere that I
didn't yet find.

As Ivan explains, we wanted to create a forum that anyone could participate
in, as a kind of ongoing 'home base' for the CSV work at W3C. WGs are very
hard work for participants but also add coordination cost to the entire W3C
environment; W3C does not charter or re-charter WGs casually. Over the
years W3C has experimented with a variety of mechanisms that support
standards without requiring a full WG. In the 1990s, this was Interest
Groups (originally closed and hidden like 1990s W3C WGs, but the RDF IG and
others moved successfully to operate in public); then in the mid-2000s we
had Incubator Groups, which focussed on the 'starting new work' aspect
successfully. Finally this evolved into Community Groups, whose design
acknowledged that 'starting new work' is just one of the roles that we need
to consider to support the lifecycle of a successful and ongoing Web
technology. In many ways CGs are as important as WGs, but the emphasis and
work style is pretty different.

Anyway I made a quick blog post at
https://www.w3.org/community/csvw/2016/01/07/welcome-to-the-csvw-community-group/
which shows up at https://www.w3.org/community/csvw/ to give some
background context for the CG. Hope this helps.

When the WG closes it will also have to decide how to manage (e.g. freeze
vs leave open) its Github issue tracker; I don't know what conventions have
evolved for life-after-WG regarding Github issue tracking. So for now I
prefer we (meaning the new CG) defer any decision about issue tracking
systems.

cheers,

Dan




Cheers
>
> Ivan
>
> >
> > - Florian
> >
> >> On Jan 7, 2016, at 15:06, Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> Florian,
> >>
> >> the WG's charter expires about a month and a half, with a few notes
> planned to be published between now and then. The CG is planned to take
> over what we often call the 'life after Rec', ie, to provide a home for
> further discussions on, say, implementations, possible new features for a
> future update of the rec, usage practices, etc.
> >>
> >> You are right that it may not be very clear right now. When the WG
> closes down, this will be signaled more clearly on the WG's wiki, with a
> reference to the CG.
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >>
> >> Ivan
> >>
> >>> On 7 Jan 2016, at 04:04, Florian Rivoal <florian@rivoal.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>> I am a bit confused about the creation of this CG, since we already
> have an WG on the same topic.
> >>> Especially given that the CG's description points to the WG's wiki
> (and from there to the WG's charter),
> >>> without a clear explanation about how the two differ or relate to each
> other.
> >>>
> >>> Clarifications would be appreciated.
> >>>
> >>> Florian Rivoal,
> >>> Vivliostyle AC Rep
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> On Jan 7, 2016, at 03:30, Do Not Reply <nobody@w3.org> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> The CSV on the Web Community Group has been launched:
> >>>> http://www.w3.org/community/csvw/
> >>>>
> >>>> --------------------------------------------------
> >>>>
> >>>> CSV on the Web  collaboration, discussion and mutual support for
> >>>> implementors, publishers and spec developers.  Focus is on W3C's CSVW
> >>>> specs but also on related work e.g. R2RML, potential extensions,
> errata
> >>>> and test cases.
> >>>>
> >>>> --------------------------------------------------
> >>>>
> >>>> To join:
> >>>> http://www.w3.org/community/csvw/join
> >>>>
> >>>> If you do not have one already, you will need a W3C account to join:
> >>>> http://www.w3.org/accounts/request
> >>>>
> >>>> This is a community initiative. W3C's hosting of this group does not
> >>>> imply endorsement of the activities.
> >>>>
> >>>> The group must now choose a chair:
> >>>> http://www.w3.org/community/about/faq/#how-do-we-choose-a-chair
> >>>>
> >>>> For more information about getting started in the new group, see:
> >>>>
> http://www.w3.org/community/about/faq/#how-do-we-get-started-in-a-new-group
> >>>>
> >>>> and good practice for running a group:
> >>>> http://www.w3.org/community/about/good-practice-for-running-a-group/
> >>>>
> >>>> We invite you to share news of this new group in social media
> >>>> and other channels.
> >>>>
> >>>> If you believe that there is an issue with this group that requires
> >>>> the attention of the W3C staff, please email us at
> site-comments@w3.org
> >>>>
> >>>> Thank you,
> >>>> W3C Community Development Team
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> - Florian Rivoal
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> ----
> >> Ivan Herman, W3C
> >> Digital Publishing Lead
> >> Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
> >> mobile: +31-641044153
> >> ORCID ID: http://orcid.org/0000-0003-0782-2704
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
> ----
> Ivan Herman, W3C
> Digital Publishing Lead
> Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
> mobile: +31-641044153
> ORCID ID: http://orcid.org/0000-0003-0782-2704
>
>
>
>
>