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Re: Blank nodes must DIE! [ was Re: Blank nodes semantics - existential variables?]

From: Harold Solbrig <solbrig@jhu.edu>
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2020 14:05:19 +0000
To: "semantic-web@w3.org" <semantic-web@w3.org>
CC: "sabhyank@regenstrief.org" <sabhyank@regenstrief.org>
Message-ID: <DD60BF5E-17B4-462D-B914-1B5C942B0E7C@jhu.edu>
Some info about UCUM copyright


Harold Solbrig


From: "Abhyankar, Swapna" <sabhyank@regenstrief.org>
Date: Friday, August 14, 2020 at 6:18 PM
To: Stan Huff <Stan.Huff@imail.org>, Harold Solbrig <solbrig@jhu.edu>, Christopher Chute <chute@jhu.edu>
Cc: David Booth <david@dbooth.org>, Eric Prud'hommeaux <eric@w3.org>, "Jiang, Guoqian" <Jiang.Guoqian@mayo.edu>, Dazhi Jiao <djiao@jhu.edu>
Subject: Re: [External] RE: W3C Use of UCUM


      External Email - Use Caution




Hi everyone,

Sorry for the delay in responding to this email!

I am indeed the correct person to contact regarding UCUM terms of use. We’re actually in a bit of a transition period. Although UCUM is owned by Regenstrief, for the past many years Gunther Schadow, one of the creators of UCUM, has been maintaining the standard and its website. We (LOINC and Health Data Standards at Regenstrief) are in the process of standing up a new site and transitioning over from Gunther.

As part of the process of standing up the new site, I’ll be reviewing and updating the terms of use, governance, etc. I was not involved in writing the terms of use that are currently published on the UCUM site, but they seem to be based on an older version of the LOINC terms of use. I don’t think the terms were meant to scare people away, and that definitely isn’t our intent going forward – we want people to use the help improve the standard. If you could tell me specifically which parts seem to discourage use of UCUM or you would like to see changed, I will make sure we address those.

Thanks,
Swapna

----------------------------------------------------
Swapna Abhyankar, MD
Interim Director
LOINC and Health Data Standards
[cid:image001.png@01D681D1.58AB0800]
1101 West Tenth Street
Indianapolis, IN  46202

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From: Stan Huff <Stan.Huff@imail.org>
Date: Monday, July 27, 2020 at 2:42 PM
To: Harold Solbrig <solbrig@jhu.edu>, Christopher Chute <chute@jhu.edu>, "Abhyankar, Swapna" <sabhyank@regenstrief.org>
Cc: David Booth <david@dbooth.org>, Eric Prud'hommeaux <eric@w3.org>, "Jiang, Guoqian" <Jiang.Guoqian@mayo.edu>, Dazhi Jiao <djiao@jhu.edu>
Subject: [External] RE: W3C Use of UCUM

This message was sent from a non-IU address. Please exercise caution when clicking links or opening attachments from external sources.

I would contact the folks at Regenstrief.  I would start with Swapna Abhyankar (copied on this email), but she may quickly refer you to someone else.  Stan

From: Harold Solbrig [mailto:solbrig@jhu.edu]
Sent: Monday, July 27, 2020 10:59 AM
To: Christopher Chute <chute@jhu.edu>; Stan Huff <Stan.Huff@imail.org>
Cc: David Booth <david@dbooth.org>; Eric Prud'hommeaux <eric@w3.org>; Jiang, Guoqian <Jiang.Guoqian@mayo.edu>; Dazhi Jiao <djiao@jhu.edu>
Subject: W3C Use of UCUM

BE ALERT. External Sender. Be cautious.


Chris or Stan,

There have been some questions raised about the UCUM terms of use, which sound a lot like LOINC.   Any idea who we’d contact about intent, enforcement, etc?


Harold Solbrig


From: Dan Brickley <danbri@danbri.org<mailto:danbri@danbri.org>>
Date: Thursday, July 23, 2020 at 2:09 PM
To: Patrick J Hayes <phayes@ihmc.us<mailto:phayes@ihmc.us>>
Cc: Antoine Zimmermann <antoine.zimmermann@emse.fr<mailto:antoine.zimmermann@emse.fr>>, Semantic Web <semantic-web@w3.org<mailto:semantic-web@w3.org>>, Maxime Lefrançois <maxime.lefrancois@emse.fr<mailto:maxime.lefrancois@emse.fr>>
Subject: Re: Blank nodes must DIE! [ was Re: Blank nodes semantics - existential variables?]
Resent-From: <semantic-web@w3.org<mailto:semantic-web@w3.org>>
Resent-Date: Thursday, July 23, 2020 at 2:03 PM


      External Email - Use Caution






On Thu, 23 Jul 2020 at 19:50, Patrick J Hayes <phayes@ihmc.us<mailto:phayes@ihmc.us>> wrote:
Excellent. I have thought for some time that this way of using datatyping would be the right way to go. Congratulations on having actually done it :-)

This is really interesting. Every couple of years I stumble across UCUM (http://unitsofmeasure.org/trac<https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.proofpoint.com%2Fv2%2Furl%3Fu%3Dhttps-3A__nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-253A-252F-252Funitsofmeasure.org-252Ftrac-26data-3D02-257C01-257Csolbrig-2540jhu.edu-257C2da4306646984048ef4308d82f3bf720-257C9fa4f438b1e6473b803f86f8aedf0dec-257C0-257C0-257C637311281877721367-26sdata-3DRbHA1qjQ-252BG7R2kMSXZvBmbKBDKdSqviRIxqrzGPV-252FhQ-253D-26reserved-3D0%26d%3DDwMGaQ%26c%3DII16XUCNF0uj2WHDMBdftpHZzyfqZU4E6o4J8m7Yfh-XF5deecOtjPXuMFvj1uWy%26r%3DOnAE5XBEYAsGyyJG8dlmPs52ioZGWKimU4ntvC0PeG8%26m%3DOzGcsk2Ds0BKJJpkaRXIsEM-Zf5BGQ8oLZHHZB_pCI4%26s%3DZwAcvD-S5ct6hLz-ahjTqgteZVjhE-xqDzEqVB-HBRg%26e%3D&data=02%7C01%7Csolbrig%40jhu.edu%7C17a7c1beb50c4a9b4f5a08d840a8506d%7C9fa4f438b1e6473b803f86f8aedf0dec%7C0%7C0%7C637330438952407785&sdata=tvjGCwnRERL3Mpw9pgB0dsmQHSCXaZTX0p9Ie1MEz08%3D&reserved=0> -> http://unitsofmeasure.org/trac/wiki/TermsOfUse<https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.proofpoint.com%2Fv2%2Furl%3Fu%3Dhttps-3A__nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-253A-252F-252Funitsofmeasure.org-252Ftrac-252Fwiki-252FTermsOfUse-26data-3D02-257C01-257Csolbrig-2540jhu.edu-257C2da4306646984048ef4308d82f3bf720-257C9fa4f438b1e6473b803f86f8aedf0dec-257C0-257C0-257C637311281877721367-26sdata-3DQwdRg7PYgOKdGZ5cyXDWJOcaSJfn59bqrp3asLzdOnM-253D-26reserved-3D0%26d%3DDwMGaQ%26c%3DII16XUCNF0uj2WHDMBdftpHZzyfqZU4E6o4J8m7Yfh-XF5deecOtjPXuMFvj1uWy%26r%3DOnAE5XBEYAsGyyJG8dlmPs52ioZGWKimU4ntvC0PeG8%26m%3DOzGcsk2Ds0BKJJpkaRXIsEM-Zf5BGQ8oLZHHZB_pCI4%26s%3DpM-Dol_vM0ZmfRNyPcfpFJHvGQ3D-5MfKO0Cei9lkpk%26e%3D&data=02%7C01%7Csolbrig%40jhu.edu%7C17a7c1beb50c4a9b4f5a08d840a8506d%7C9fa4f438b1e6473b803f86f8aedf0dec%7C0%7C0%7C637330438952407785&sdata=Uc75nXJTtNfnGu5sTgfjwJaQcl96eAujX8L2l1xgLFs%3D&reserved=0>) before being scared away by the prickly terms of use document. It is not a document that seems to welcome re-use.

Dan

Pat

> On Jul 21, 2020, at 7:35 AM, Antoine Zimmermann <antoine.zimmermann@emse.fr<mailto:antoine.zimmermann@emse.fr>> wrote:
>
> Regarding physical quantities, such as "5 inches", etc., my colleague Maxime Lefrançois and myself coauthored a specification for a datatype for physical quantities [1]. It is quite simple: we reuse the Unified Code for Units of Measurement (UCUM), a standard that is used in many scientific applications, and combine it with a number:
>
> <QUANTITY> ::= <NUMBER> <SPACES> <UCUMCODE>
> <NUMBER> ::= xsd:decimal(('e'|'E')xsd:integer)?
>
> Since UCUM has a well defined semantics, so does our datatype. Better, since UCUM is implemented in many programming languages, my colleague Maxime could easily integrate it into Jena and its SPARQL engine [2].
>
> So, with our Jena fork, one can write:
>
> SELECT ?planet WHERE {
>  ?planet a ex:Planet;
>    ex:diameter ?s .
>  FILTER(?s > "2e11 mm"^^cdt:ucum)
> }
>
> This works if the size of the planet is encoded as a cdt:ucum, no matter what unit one is using. One can even use "link for Gunter's chain" (unit "[lk_us]"), or "cubic meters per acre" (unit "m3/[acr_us]") [3], which are both units of length.
>
> With some of our industrial partners, we are using this for energy data, and they seem to be very pleased with this approach, compared to an ontology-based approach.
>
>
> [1] https://w3id.org/lindt/custom_datatypes#ucum<https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.proofpoint.com%2Fv2%2Furl%3Fu%3Dhttps-3A__nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Fw3id.org-252Flindt-252Fcustom-5Fdatatypes-2523ucum-26data-3D02-257C01-257Csolbrig-2540jhu.edu-257C2da4306646984048ef4308d82f3bf720-257C9fa4f438b1e6473b803f86f8aedf0dec-257C0-257C0-257C637311281877731362-26sdata-3DIT643KaAApTX3cVotvA2SH3ViiWAf0iVFC90lQNdqZk-253D-26reserved-3D0%26d%3DDwMGaQ%26c%3DII16XUCNF0uj2WHDMBdftpHZzyfqZU4E6o4J8m7Yfh-XF5deecOtjPXuMFvj1uWy%26r%3DOnAE5XBEYAsGyyJG8dlmPs52ioZGWKimU4ntvC0PeG8%26m%3DOzGcsk2Ds0BKJJpkaRXIsEM-Zf5BGQ8oLZHHZB_pCI4%26s%3D163F7HFPihxL5T1KveKLVrcvBHbh4sf7feHfQ6W75og%26e%3D&data=02%7C01%7Csolbrig%40jhu.edu%7C17a7c1beb50c4a9b4f5a08d840a8506d%7C9fa4f438b1e6473b803f86f8aedf0dec%7C0%7C0%7C637330438952417783&sdata=7mvD71ToFHw%2FaOe8n%2F2tlhGaoaJy%2FPTcsidZa%2FsOORA%3D&reserved=0>
> [2] You can try it at https://ci.mines-stetienne.fr/lindt/playground.html<https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.proofpoint.com%2Fv2%2Furl%3Fu%3Dhttps-3A__nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Fci.mines-2Dstetienne.fr-252Flindt-252Fplayground.html-26data-3D02-257C01-257Csolbrig-2540jhu.edu-257C2da4306646984048ef4308d82f3bf720-257C9fa4f438b1e6473b803f86f8aedf0dec-257C0-257C0-257C637311281877731362-26sdata-3DVjgC91mbJTCuMDtR7UkWk2ua-252FZVuQb8w2YWx0Z3SCjU-253D-26reserved-3D0%26d%3DDwMGaQ%26c%3DII16XUCNF0uj2WHDMBdftpHZzyfqZU4E6o4J8m7Yfh-XF5deecOtjPXuMFvj1uWy%26r%3DOnAE5XBEYAsGyyJG8dlmPs52ioZGWKimU4ntvC0PeG8%26m%3DOzGcsk2Ds0BKJJpkaRXIsEM-Zf5BGQ8oLZHHZB_pCI4%26s%3DdNeddY_P9DlvjTJjpLpYaHQfDX7TsDprvJooJlhsui4%26e%3D&data=02%7C01%7Csolbrig%40jhu.edu%7C17a7c1beb50c4a9b4f5a08d840a8506d%7C9fa4f438b1e6473b803f86f8aedf0dec%7C0%7C0%7C637330438952427780&sdata=ahT1unlCC5cdTwpD0HssXp9RqWP5A7Yd%2FPkO9wH0x%2Bg%3D&reserved=0>
> [3] Try this query in the playground:
>
> """
> PREFIX iter: <http://w3id.org/sparql-generate/iter/<https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.proofpoint.com%2Fv2%2Furl%3Fu%3Dhttps-3A__nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-253A-252F-252Fw3id.org-252Fsparql-2Dgenerate-252Fiter-252F-26data-3D02-257C01-257Csolbrig-2540jhu.edu-257C2da4306646984048ef4308d82f3bf720-257C9fa4f438b1e6473b803f86f8aedf0dec-257C0-257C0-257C637311281877741357-26sdata-3DBBrTLlSPvHKMxc-252FT1iGadvF6DS3lTk0jx-252BGy-252FlVxqrE-253D-26reserved-3D0%26d%3DDwMGaQ%26c%3DII16XUCNF0uj2WHDMBdftpHZzyfqZU4E6o4J8m7Yfh-XF5deecOtjPXuMFvj1uWy%26r%3DOnAE5XBEYAsGyyJG8dlmPs52ioZGWKimU4ntvC0PeG8%26m%3DOzGcsk2Ds0BKJJpkaRXIsEM-Zf5BGQ8oLZHHZB_pCI4%26s%3DcobMgcrmk7BoqG4q_2-leemJERfPSku8HQDAQsta2AI%26e%3D&data=02%7C01%7Csolbrig%40jhu.edu%7C17a7c1beb50c4a9b4f5a08d840a8506d%7C9fa4f438b1e6473b803f86f8aedf0dec%7C0%7C0%7C637330438952427780&sdata=m3VUTIalmBQ7fbzkCC1vJnXvShmCdlTdtRFZkrznJRI%3D&reserved=0>>
> PREFIX xsd: <http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema#<https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.proofpoint.com%2Fv2%2Furl%3Fu%3Dhttps-3A__nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-253A-252F-252Fwww.w3.org-252F2001-252FXMLSchema-2523-26data-3D02-257C01-257Csolbrig-2540jhu.edu-257C2da4306646984048ef4308d82f3bf720-257C9fa4f438b1e6473b803f86f8aedf0dec-257C0-257C0-257C637311281877751354-26sdata-3DY6py59B4bw-252BB9ctXxNKAJz8QuAFb6VuzWFTDLL0hINo-253D-26reserved-3D0%26d%3DDwMGaQ%26c%3DII16XUCNF0uj2WHDMBdftpHZzyfqZU4E6o4J8m7Yfh-XF5deecOtjPXuMFvj1uWy%26r%3DOnAE5XBEYAsGyyJG8dlmPs52ioZGWKimU4ntvC0PeG8%26m%3DOzGcsk2Ds0BKJJpkaRXIsEM-Zf5BGQ8oLZHHZB_pCI4%26s%3DthAYU2Xd-sfpJanGKezAZ8CsxwIDrp5iUvlHCSNTcT8%26e%3D&data=02%7C01%7Csolbrig%40jhu.edu%7C17a7c1beb50c4a9b4f5a08d840a8506d%7C9fa4f438b1e6473b803f86f8aedf0dec%7C0%7C0%7C637330438952437776&sdata=zP3zV4Q2Kvx7dDzSnPY5kzuK%2BSbw4%2FWaJ7c%2Fk03rRdc%3D&reserved=0>>
> PREFIX cdt: <http://w3id.org/lindt/custom_datatypes#<https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.proofpoint.com%2Fv2%2Furl%3Fu%3Dhttps-3A__nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-253A-252F-252Fw3id.org-252Flindt-252Fcustom-5Fdatatypes-2523-26data-3D02-257C01-257Csolbrig-2540jhu.edu-257C2da4306646984048ef4308d82f3bf720-257C9fa4f438b1e6473b803f86f8aedf0dec-257C0-257C0-257C637311281877751354-26sdata-3DX6P9GGQvNetRTX8iMiAOGIIXzXJYsd5yeR-252BxfS-252BFekk-253D-26reserved-3D0%26d%3DDwMGaQ%26c%3DII16XUCNF0uj2WHDMBdftpHZzyfqZU4E6o4J8m7Yfh-XF5deecOtjPXuMFvj1uWy%26r%3DOnAE5XBEYAsGyyJG8dlmPs52ioZGWKimU4ntvC0PeG8%26m%3DOzGcsk2Ds0BKJJpkaRXIsEM-Zf5BGQ8oLZHHZB_pCI4%26s%3DuVKpccLwnERQ6vsugZS_UrpJF1v74YLkcq7U8emx14Q%26e%3D&data=02%7C01%7Csolbrig%40jhu.edu%7C17a7c1beb50c4a9b4f5a08d840a8506d%7C9fa4f438b1e6473b803f86f8aedf0dec%7C0%7C0%7C637330438952447769&sdata=2bHbrZlASPv8YFhCStDvchUBzaFe1mqzlRyqhKEwX2s%3D&reserved=0>>
> PREFIX ex: <http://example.org/<https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.proofpoint.com%2Fv2%2Furl%3Fu%3Dhttps-3A__nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-253A-252F-252Fexample.org-252F-26data-3D02-257C01-257Csolbrig-2540jhu.edu-257C2da4306646984048ef4308d82f3bf720-257C9fa4f438b1e6473b803f86f8aedf0dec-257C0-257C0-257C637311281877761348-26sdata-3Diq6oIpt4Ne0tPLJnebxfuBBrJu9r32FmNDQ8PAOhfG4-253D-26reserved-3D0%26d%3DDwMGaQ%26c%3DII16XUCNF0uj2WHDMBdftpHZzyfqZU4E6o4J8m7Yfh-XF5deecOtjPXuMFvj1uWy%26r%3DOnAE5XBEYAsGyyJG8dlmPs52ioZGWKimU4ntvC0PeG8%26m%3DOzGcsk2Ds0BKJJpkaRXIsEM-Zf5BGQ8oLZHHZB_pCI4%26s%3Ds7koAnXKQH5VE5uUxmmttFnwnWhyiuW4OAKMvS6f9DI%26e%3D&data=02%7C01%7Csolbrig%40jhu.edu%7C17a7c1beb50c4a9b4f5a08d840a8506d%7C9fa4f438b1e6473b803f86f8aedf0dec%7C0%7C0%7C637330438952447769&sdata=YDru4gRm0UjHD2z0Z2NR4OHvE2dJANFFUiL1jjZQ4PY%3D&reserved=0>>
>
> SELECT ?length ?normalized
>
> WHERE{
>
>  VALUES ?position { "2.7e3 m3/[acr_us]"^^cdt:ucum }
>  # convert to meters
>  BIND("0 m"^^cdt:ucum + ?position AS ?normalized )
>
> }
> """
>
> --AZ
>
> Le 17/07/2020 à 01:57, Cox, Simon (L&W, Clayton) a écrit :
>> Yeah, the atomicity of the chunk is the point. This even applies to quantities. 25.4mm is *identical* to 1” – they are the same thing. Any engine that operates with quantities needs to understand that. ’25.4’ and ‘mm’ cannot be separated. Coordinates are slightly more complex but it comes down to the same thing. A single element within a set of coordinates that describes a position in space is not independent of the other numbers in the tuple, or of the coordinate reference system within which they are expressed. One value should *never* be used independent of the others. Exactly the same position on the earth will be denoted by three different numbers if embedded in a different coordinate reference system. You can only ‘reason’ over them as a group, not individually.
>> *From:*Dan Brickley <danbri@danbri.org<mailto:danbri@danbri.org>>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, 16 July, 2020 23:58
>> *To:* Jeen Broekstra <jeen@fastmail.com<mailto:jeen@fastmail.com>>
>> *Cc:* Semantic Web <semantic-web@w3.org<mailto:semantic-web@w3.org>>
>> *Subject:* Re: Blank nodes must DIE! [ was Re: Blank nodes semantics - existential variables?]
>> …
>> I believe the big appeal of putting it all into the zone we call "literals" is that you get a kind of atomicity; that chunk of data is either there, or not there; it is asserted, or not asserted. With a triples-based (description of a ) data structure you have to be constantly on your guard that every subset of the full graph pattern is at least sensible and harmless, even when subsetting these chunks is often confusing or misleading for data consumers. I can't help wondering whether notions of graph shapes from shacl, shex (and sparql) could be exploited to create an RDF-based data format which had atomicity at the level of entire shapes.
>> Dan
>>    Jeen
>
> --
> Antoine Zimmermann
> Institut Henri Fayol
> École des Mines de Saint-Étienne
> 158 cours Fauriel
> CS 62362
> 42023 Saint-Étienne Cedex 2
> France
> Tél:+33(0)4 77 42 66 03
> Fax:+33(0)4 77 42 66 66
> http://www.emse.fr/~zimmermann/<https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.proofpoint.com%2Fv2%2Furl%3Fu%3Dhttps-3A__nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-3A-252F-252Fwww.emse.fr-252F-7Ezimmermann-252F-26data-3D02-257C01-257Csolbrig-2540jhu.edu-257C2da4306646984048ef4308d82f3bf720-257C9fa4f438b1e6473b803f86f8aedf0dec-257C0-257C0-257C637311281877761348-26sdata-3DO6zauucyJdhqz-252F5cjod-252BSdZg8DOAsXdFoS9RRjFeZFw-253D-26reserved-3D0%26d%3DDwMGaQ%26c%3DII16XUCNF0uj2WHDMBdftpHZzyfqZU4E6o4J8m7Yfh-XF5deecOtjPXuMFvj1uWy%26r%3DOnAE5XBEYAsGyyJG8dlmPs52ioZGWKimU4ntvC0PeG8%26m%3DOzGcsk2Ds0BKJJpkaRXIsEM-Zf5BGQ8oLZHHZB_pCI4%26s%3DLVasolQlCRpBfNyNXk4Ji2yHY0fpcpGRHVQuQQgcRVw%26e%3D&data=02%7C01%7Csolbrig%40jhu.edu%7C17a7c1beb50c4a9b4f5a08d840a8506d%7C9fa4f438b1e6473b803f86f8aedf0dec%7C0%7C0%7C637330438952457758&sdata=JhZ2GoDqorYsTwJVy6VOV5coV48rRJo0je6W2mYCfNM%3D&reserved=0>
> Member of team Connected Intelligence, Laboratoire Hubert Curien
>
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Received on Thursday, 3 September 2020 14:05:41 UTC

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