- From: Krzysztof Janowicz <janowicz@ucsb.edu>
- Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2017 12:47:53 +0200
- To: Alexander Garcia Castro <alexgarciac@gmail.com>
- Cc: Sarven Capadisli <info@csarven.ca>, Harry Halpin <hhalpin@ibiblio.org>, Matthew Horridge <matthew.horridge@stanford.edu>, "semantic-web@w3.org" <semantic-web@w3.org>, Pascal Hitzler <pascal.hitzler@wright.edu>
- Message-ID: <4eb03dba-fc92-31d8-8584-2c7dcb97c218@ucsb.edu>
On 08/07/2017 12:19 PM, Alexander Garcia Castro wrote: > Krzysztof , why is this picture of the publishing industry inaccurate? > there must be some truth there because it is not just Sarven the one > with this perception -others are, however, less vociferous. Maybe we > need less political correctness with businesses that provide a service > to us (the message being we can remove/change them) and more > rightfulness with the community of researchers as a whole. Because the 'publishing industry' is not our enemy. The relation between the publishing industry and science is very complex with beneficiaries from both sides and a careful balance that we have to strike and renegotiate as time progresses. This relationship goes back more than 300 years. If we paint a one-sided image of this relation, we are not doing ourselves a favor. Instead, we should work with them to actively shape this relationship. In many domains such as Computer Science, the publishing industry's role is declining (which I believe is good) and this puts us into a unique position and explains the rapid development within the industry. Calling the behavior of one side shameful (and their work junk) is not what one would call an invitation. > > As a disclaimer: I dont receive any money from the publishing > industry. I am not an editor for any journal and at this moment I dont > have any business relation with the publishing industry other than > paying APCs for something that I really dont understand what am I > paying for. I am an editor of a journal and I work with the publishing industry and I believe in understanding an industry before criticizing them. So far, Pascal Hitzler and I have fostered open and transparent reviews, open access to manuscripts in all stages, open and free *full *metadata, and Linked Data usage by said industry. I believe that this a more fruitful way to bringing change. Best, Krzysztof > > On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 11:57 AM, Krzysztof Janowicz <janowicz@ucsb.edu > <mailto:janowicz@ucsb.edu>> wrote: > > On 08/07/2017 11:34 AM, Sarven Capadisli wrote: > > On 2017-08-05 12:59, Harry Halpin wrote: > > While normally I consider the desire to publish scientific > papers in > HTML as quite silly given the lack of support of MathML by > major > browsers and the need to use LateX in computer science, > > Grab coffee. > > I think that this is not a showstopper because the alternative > is not: > > * resort to LaTeX/Word.. > * resort to handing publicly funded work to a company > > > This has nothing to do with LaTeX versus HTML. > > * resort to paying fees to get access back to the work > > > Same here. > > * resort to numbing Web researchers from using the native Web > stack > > Again, that's precisely what the Web Semantics journal is > doing and > encouraging. Shameful. > > > This kind of strong wording is damaging your mission. It also > paints an inaccurate picture of the publishing industry. > > > Best, > Krzysztof > > > > > > The fact of the matter is that, if researchers agree on the > final goal > of using the native Web stack, and controlling their own work, > there are > options however imperfect: MathML, MathJax ( > https://www.mathjax.org/ ), > Web fonts, SVG, bitmap images, Flash (not a real suggestion), > a photo of > whiteboard or handwritten equations, and more. We can nitpick > the whole > day on any given approach, but the bottom line is that it can be > achieved and still reasonable - I'll get back to this in a moment. > > If those options are still inadequate, and if the goal still > remains to > open up and make the best of the Web, people can dedicate > energy to > improve the state of the art. It would be absurd to think that > we are > indefinitely stuck with LaTeX for mathematics on the Web. > > So, we don't just throw our hands up in the air and walk away > - at the > same time throwing the whole academic community under the bus > - just > because some Web tech is imperfect, and might as well resort > to LaTeX. > > We improve the Web because we are idealists. We join standards > organisations or create communities to address the > shortcomings - just > as we have in the past. > > Springer can't even manage to display code blocks in their > HTML copies. > Literally uses *gif* of a PDF (or something) rendering eg: > > https://static-content.springer.com/image/chp%3A10.1007%2F978-3-319-58068-5_33/MediaObjects/449646_1_En_33_Figb_HTML.gif > <https://static-content.springer.com/image/chp%3A10.1007%2F978-3-319-58068-5_33/MediaObjects/449646_1_En_33_Figb_HTML.gif> > > That is a major joke! > > If Springer, with all the funding at their disposal decides to > create a > gif of a script block from a LaTeX source, and deemed it to be > "acceptable" (by their standards at least) in academic > articles, we can > apply the same line of reasoning and do it ourselves. Pure and > simple. > Compare what you get out of the box: > > * > http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-319-58068-5_33 > <http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-319-58068-5_33> > * http://csarven.ca/linked-data-notifications > <http://csarven.ca/linked-data-notifications> > > It makes zero sense to pay these companies from public funds > to reduce > the quality of the representations/semantics, interactive > components.. > regardless of if they get LaTeX or even HTML. > > What they generate is bare minimum junk in comparison to what the > authors can express; multimodal, semantic, social, decentralised > solutions with some commitment to interop on the Web. > > Hence, I reject the general line of argument: "x is not perfect, > therefore let's instead p00p on the Web". > > I agree the > scientific community - especially the Semantic Web > community, a > community in theory devoted to open data - should refuse > to publish or > review in Elsevier journals given their particularly > atrocious track > record, including support of SOPA/PIPA etc. in the past: > > For more, see the Elsevier boycott: > http://michaelnielsen.org/polymath1/index.php?title=Journal_publishing_reform > <http://michaelnielsen.org/polymath1/index.php?title=Journal_publishing_reform> > > And something a bit more recent and concrete, "at the end of > 2017, the > following bodies announced that they would no longer extend their > contract with Elsevier": > > https://www.projekt-deal.de/vertragskundigungen-elsevier-2017/ > <https://www.projekt-deal.de/vertragskundigungen-elsevier-2017/> > > Note in response to the boycott, Elsevier now has open > access journals. > Obviously the Web Semantics journal could become an Open > Access journal: > > https://www.elsevier.com/about/open-science/open-access/open-access-journals > <https://www.elsevier.com/about/open-science/open-access/open-access-journals> > > Why is it not? > > Possibly because APC model requires authors/public > institutions to feed > even more money (on top of what their libraries pay for > instance) into > the scholarly system, and so the editors of the journal may > have figured > that would not be feasible - or maybe it just didn't even > occur to them. > In any case, getting the money out of the system is a "goal", > so just > taking OA approach for the sake of it is not solving anything. > > Moreover, even if gold/green OA was in place, it still doesn't > address > the disclaimer point on crafting multimodal research objects, > ie. the > bar is still set to their content/data publishing pipeline - > which is > archaic as it gets. > > -Sarven > http://csarven.ca/#i > > > -- > Krzysztof Janowicz > > Geography Department, University of California, Santa Barbara > 4830 Ellison Hall, Santa Barbara, CA 93106-4060 > > Email: jano@geog.ucsb.edu <mailto:jano@geog.ucsb.edu> > Webpage: http://geog.ucsb.edu/~jano/ <http://geog.ucsb.edu/%7Ejano/> > Semantic Web Journal: http://www.semantic-web-journal.net > <http://www.semantic-web-journal.net> > > > > > > -- > Alexander Garcia > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Alexander_Garcia > http://www.usefilm.com/photographer/75943.html > http://www.linkedin.com/in/alexgarciac > -- Krzysztof Janowicz Geography Department, University of California, Santa Barbara 4830 Ellison Hall, Santa Barbara, CA 93106-4060 Email: jano@geog.ucsb.edu Webpage: http://geog.ucsb.edu/~jano/ Semantic Web Journal: http://www.semantic-web-journal.net
Received on Monday, 7 August 2017 10:48:21 UTC