Re: Additional usages for Semanticweb.org

Hi Bernadette,
Welcome back.
I think I agree with most of what you say, with the following problem:
> So my feeling is that anyone can and should create their favorite directory BUT they should do it in a manner that others can re-use the content. 
If it is just people doing their own stuff, fine.
But where they expect others to invest their time and effort to help create it, or otherwise appear to be outside the community tent, then it has consequences for the community, and is is open to question as to whether it is appropriate.
W3C is in the position of having some responsibility in this respect.

However, since time has passed, things have moved on a little, and your directory now exists.
And you may have seen some effort on revamping semanticweb.org.
And I like your directory, and accept completely that anything like this should be reusable.

So notwithstanding what was first (it doesn't matter), it seems to me that it is now the case that we should all commit to this directory, and see if things like semanticweb.org and esw can instead try to abandon their directories and feed off this one.

Best
Hugh
On 12 Mar 2012, at 15:23, Bernadette Hyland wrote:

> Hi Hugh,
> First, apologies for the long delay in responding ... I was swamped in Feb/early March but have bubbled up now.
> 
> I think the gist of what you were saying is, 'why create yet-another-directory ... why not work with an existing one, ie., semanticweb.org, to improve it?'
> 
> In a nutshell, I think being able to publish N directories, with no advance coordination, as long as they conform to a common data exchange format, is the point.
> 
> I offer this and hope you'll appreciate where we I'm coming from.  The sem tech community has for over a decade been espousing the benefits of human and machine readable content however,  from time to time we've been guilty of not practicing what we preach.  In many cases directories have been HTML only which isn't re-usable for an LOD app. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe semanticweb.org is a semantic media wiki site that contains primarily unstructured content.
> 
> The W3C directory[1], albeit another directory, is a structured content site.  The GLD WG created its directory to demonstrate the power of triples (triples under the hood, up & down), has some eye candy stats [2], and looks pretty thanks to HTML 5 & CSS, using Callimachus [3], a linked data management system.
> 
> Thus, this directory allows the data to be made readily available as both human readable & machine readable content which is the raison d'ętre of the W3C GLD Working Group.  It is a simple showcase app to help the LD community advertise their wares (projects, products, services), and does so using the set of standards we're telling governments they should use to make their data more accessible & re-useable.
> 
> So my feeling is that anyone can and should create their favorite directory BUT they should do it in a manner that others can re-use the content.   As you well appreciate,W3 projects are volunteer based efforts.  The directory definitely needs some usability improvements, no question.  All feedback is welcome.  In due course, I hope others take the directory data & mash it up with some other LOD to show something useful.
> 
> I hope that helps better explain our thinking on yet-another-directory.  (Plus, it was in our charter).
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Bernadette Hyland, co-chair 
> W3C Government Linked Data Working Group
> Charter: http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/
> 
> [1] http://dir.w3.org
> [2] http://dir.w3.org/rdf/2012/directory/statistics.xhtml?view
> [2] http://callimachusproject.org
> 
> On Feb 8, 2012, at 8:42 AM, Hugh Glaser wrote:
> 
>> Thanks Bernadette,
>> On 17 Jan 2012, at 16:19, Bernadette Hyland wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Hugh, 
>>> Yes, we recognize there are other directories with varying degrees of information. Like anything on the Web, it boils down to ease of use and usefulness.  This community directory is intended to be both useful and easy to use but also serves as a (basic) exemplar of Linked Data principles and uses a FLOSS Linked Data Management System.   
>>> 
>>> The directory is a deliverable from the currently chartered Gov't Linked Data Working Group.  We meet at the end of this month for our second F2F to review the directory (and all our deliverables) & figure how to make it more useful. If that entails pointing to other sites or adding functionality to more relevant site, we'll happily consider any approach that adds value.
>> There is another choice.
>> To decide that a new Directory is not necessary.
>> If the existing directories do not do what a group wants (in terms of ease of use, usefulness or content), then that group can decide to ensure that an existing directory does do what they want, by engaging with it.
>> Could you not have put effort into getting semantic web.org to be better, rather than duplicating effort, and getting contributors to duplicate their efforts?
>> I understand the BBC decided to commit to making MusicBrainz have the data they wanted in it - surely this could have been done in this case.
>> Whenever a new group starts, it seems the first thing is to start a directory - well in fact usually more than one.
>> The web really should not be everyone making their own directories with slightly different information in slightly different formats.
>> 
>> Sorry, just needed to say that.
>> I've now joined, with your help in registering me (thank you), and put my name in. :-)
>> 
>> Best
>> Hugh
>> 
>>> 
>>> Any feedback of what we can do better is always welcome.  Please let us know & we'll review/incorporate as appropriate.  
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> 
>>> Bernadette Hyland
>>> 
>>> PS. I'm interested in complementing the content on semanticweb.org and we'll discuss during the upcoming F2F this month.
>>> 
>>> On Jan 16, 2012, at 9:08 AM, Hugh Glaser wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Eeek!
>>>> Please, not Yet Another Directory of companies, tools, projects.
>>>> There are already quite few of these, I think, all expecting people to come along and edit them.
>>>> This one went through the list only a couple of months ago.
>>>> http://dir.w3.org/directory/categories_list.xhtml?construct
>>>> then for projects there is
>>>> http://www.w3.org/wiki/SweoIG/TaskForces/CommunityProjects/LinkingOpenData#Research_Projects_focusing_on_Linked_Data
>>>> 
>>>> Of course, if there is a Semantic Web solution so I only have to provide my data once (or even by publishing an RDF file?)... :-)
>>>> 
>>>> Well done all resurrecting semantic web.org.
>>>> Hugh
>>>> 
>>>> On 16 Jan 2012, at 09:16, Stefan Decker wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I think this is an excellent idea.
>>>>> In the early days we had this with business.semanticweb.org - but it makes
>>>>> a lot more sense to integrate it into the main site.
>>>>> To give it a head start maybe a few of us (you, Michael, Markus)
>>>>> add a number of obvious candidates.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Best.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Stefan
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Sun, Jan 15, 2012 at 11:19 PM, Yury Katkov <katkov.juriy@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> One of the use cases for semanticweb.org can be collecting informations
>>>>>> about SW companies. This can be benefitial both for the resourse, for the
>>>>>> company and for end users who want to know, what companies are making
>>>>>> business related to the Semantic Web.
>>>>>> 1) It's good for semanticweb.org because wiki will be used more intencively.
>>>>>> Some of the companies will eventually decide to post information about their
>>>>>> projects.
>>>>>> 2) It's good for companies. Some of them are too small to be in Wikipedia,
>>>>>> but can experience a need in self-promotion and search engine optimization.
>>>>>> Semanticweb.org rank on Alexa.com is big enough and Semantic MediaWiki can
>>>>>> provide Rich snippets for popular engines so that search results will be
>>>>>> prettier.
>>>>>> 3) It's good for user who is interesing in semantic web technologies - a
>>>>>> younger scientist can make a good survey of the companies, a potential
>>>>>> customer of semanticweb solutions can have centralized entry point for
>>>>>> search the company she needs.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Presently there are some companies described on a wiki. But there is no
>>>>>> infobox for them and the are not shown on the Main page.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sincerely yours,
>>>>>> -----
>>>>>> Yury Katkov
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 4:50 PM, Stefan Decker <stefan.decker@deri.org>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> A recent proposal we are working on is to establish a vocabulary editing
>>>>>>> facility under SemanticWeb.org,
>>>>>>> If there are suggestions for usages of SemanticWeb.org
>>>>>>> we would look forward to hear about those!
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Stefan
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 11:25 PM, Dieter Fensel <dieter.fensel@sti2.at>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi Tim,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> as Stefan, I think this is a great proposal of you!! I appreciate very
>>>>>>>> much
>>>>>>>> your kind offer in supporting
>>>>>>>> the community in archiving the past.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Do you also have some proposals in mind on how we should support the
>>>>>>>> future
>>>>>>>> evolvement
>>>>>>>> of this information source?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Looking forward your advice,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Dieter
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> At 05:42 PM 1/13/2012, Tim Berners-Lee wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> It's not an offer, I'm just saying we have one that in the past.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> For any future project we'd have to understand what is needed and what
>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>> would take
>>>>>>>>> to do, before we could offer anything.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Tim
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On 2012-01 -13, at 09:46, Stefan Decker wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Tim,
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> this is a great offer!
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>>>> Stefan
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 2:41 PM, Tim Berners-Lee <timbl@w3.org>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> This is indeed an important issue for the community.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> One community service that W3C has provided in the past has been to
>>>>>>>>>>> take over the service of a domain, like daml.org, which hosts
>>>>>>>>>>> ontologies which may be used by all kinds of people, but whose
>>>>>>>>>>> development has stopped.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Also, we have come to agreements with some domain hosts which
>>>>>>>>>>> have sem web ontologies that if they wrap up the project or the
>>>>>>>>>>> organization
>>>>>>>>>>> we will take over the domain in the future.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> W3C itself has a persistence policy which commits that we will do
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> same
>>>>>>>>>>> with another public interest hosting organization should we ever
>>>>>>>>>>> wrap up W3C.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> I could ask folks whether we could do this for *.semanticweb.org
>>>>>>>>>>> domains
>>>>>>>>>>> which are no longer being modified.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Tim
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On 2012-01 -13, at 04:04, Michael Hausenblas wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is only weakly related to this wiki site discussion but
>>>>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>>>>> be easy to solve anyway. Short answers:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> * Subdomains of semanticweb.org are managed independently and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (mainly) on different servers run by different people. The
>>>>>>>>>>>>> responsibility is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> with the people who asked for the subdomain. Stefan Decker is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> managing the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> domain registration and should know who is responsible in cases
>>>>>>>>>>>>> where it is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> not clear from the web page.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Exactly.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> * Content of earlier versions of semanticweb.org has not been
>>>>>>>>>>>>> migrated in the last relaunch of the site a few years ago. As long
>>>>>>>>>>>>> as it is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> just static HTML content that does not conflict with new content
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (i.e., if
>>>>>>>>>>>>> there is nothing else under that URL now), it would be possible to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> put it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> back into its place. To do this, please send me an email with the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> archived
>>>>>>>>>>>>> HTML content and let me know where to put it. I do not have access
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to any
>>>>>>>>>>>>> old versions of the site, so I cannot help in finding the old
>>>>>>>>>>>>> content.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> How did that happen?
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe we should also have a look at
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://semanticweb.org/wiki/Special:PopularPages to figure what is
>>>>>>>>>>>> relevant
>>>>>>>>>>>> or not (modulo person-pages and long tail). Happy to invest some
>>>>>>>>>>>> time
>>>>>>>>>>>> content-wise ...
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>     Michael
>>>>>>>>>>>> -[...]
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Professor Stefan Decker
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Director, Digital Enterprise Research Institute,
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Professor of Digital Enterprise
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> National University of Ireland, Galway. Ireland.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Tel: +353.91.495011
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> E-mail: stefan.decker@deri.org
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Web: http://www.deri.ie
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Personal: http://www.stefandecker.org
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Dieter Fensel
>>>>>>>> Director STI Innsbruck, University of Innsbruck, Austria
>>>>>>>> http://www.sti-innsbruck.at/
>>>>>>>> phone: +43-512-507-6488/5, fax: +43-512-507-9872
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Professor Stefan Decker
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Director, Digital Enterprise Research Institute,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Professor of Digital Enterprise
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> National University of Ireland, Galway. Ireland.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Tel: +353.91.495011
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> E-mail: stefan.decker@deri.org
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Web: http://www.deri.ie
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Personal: http://www.stefandecker.org
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> Professor Stefan Decker
>>>>> 
>>>>> Director, Digital Enterprise Research Institute,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Professor of Digital Enterprise
>>>>> 
>>>>> National University of Ireland, Galway. Ireland.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Tel: +353.91.495011
>>>>> 
>>>>> E-mail: stefan.decker@deri.org
>>>>> 
>>>>> Web: http://www.deri.ie
>>>>> 
>>>>> Personal: http://www.stefandecker.org
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> Hugh Glaser,  
>>>>            Web and Internet Science
>>>>            Electronics and Computer Science,
>>>>            University of Southampton,
>>>>            Southampton SO17 1BJ
>>>> Work: +44 23 8059 3670, Fax: +44 23 8059 3045
>>>> Mobile: +44 75 9533 4155 , Home: +44 23 8061 5652
>>>> http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~hg/
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Hugh Glaser,  
>>             Web and Internet Science
>>             Electronics and Computer Science,
>>             University of Southampton,
>>             Southampton SO17 1BJ
>> Work: +44 23 8059 3670, Fax: +44 23 8059 3045
>> Mobile: +44 75 9533 4155 , Home: +44 23 8061 5652
>> http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~hg/
>> 
>> 
> 

-- 
Hugh Glaser,  
             Web and Internet Science
             Electronics and Computer Science,
             University of Southampton,
             Southampton SO17 1BJ
Work: +44 23 8059 3670, Fax: +44 23 8059 3045
Mobile: +44 75 9533 4155 , Home: +44 23 8061 5652
http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~hg/

Received on Monday, 12 March 2012 16:28:48 UTC