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RE: New semantic web related project - Finndesign Liitin

From: Jukka Tuominen <jukka.tuominen@finndesign.fi>
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2011 18:11:58 +0300
To: "Adam Saltiel" <adam.saltiel@gmail.com>
Cc: <semantic-web@w3.org>
Message-ID: <IDEKILMNNCEAPIAMCIAOIEHONCAA.jukka.tuominen@finndesign.fi>

I hope I mostly answered these issues already... at least kind of?

I would still like to say aloud one thing that may be obvious even
otherwise. That is; there are bound to be many already foreseeable problems
and countless new issues to arise. However, I strongly believe that Liitin
will have much more plusses than minuses. So, for the time being the focus
is on exploration of possibilities and adaption to personal and communal
life. I very much like the philosofical nature that you brought in. It will
definitely help to see the big picture. Technical details is the easy part.
Thanks again!

br, jukka


> -----Original Message-----
> From: semantic-web-request@w3.org [mailto:semantic-web-request@w3.org]On
> Behalf Of Adam Saltiel
> Sent: 16 September 2011 15:36
> To: Adam Saltiel
> Cc: Jukka Tuominen; <semantic-web@w3.org>
> Subject: Re: New semantic web related project - Finndesign Liitin
>
>
> This was sent without being quite finished. Better than being deleted -:)
> I have read through your notes a couple of times. Your
> distinction is between private and public.
> I am also a psychoanalyst and that distinction is very important
> in Psychoanalysis although, as the context is different, the
> meaning is not the same.
> I can't go into all of the issues I see about 'on line life' but
> I think it is reasonable to emphasise that even for private,
> public and lifetime the context is 'on line'. Specifically
> reasons to share emerge in this context that are otherwise not
> possible. We should also begin to understand - which is what
> interests me - reasons not to share exist that range from
> security, commercial, ordinary privacy, dislike of exploitation
> and a mix of emotions and intentions that parallel repression but
> are very context specific. (the Internet necessarily is highly
> sensorially deprived. But note the abundant compensations for
> this. The Internet is also highly addictive. Using this term informally.)
> So an on line life captured over 50 years is not going to be my
> life. But what will it be?
> How might it help or hinder me?
> I think, going back to my original email, I would expect it to
> have influence over the availability of all information about me
> and that is mine. That is to say the historical records of eg
> Facebook and, to extend the point, the calculations Facebook
> makes over data of which my data is a part.
> This, of course, is a tall order.
>
> BR
>
> Adam
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 16 Sep 2011, at 13:02, Adam Saltiel <adam.saltiel@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi
> > Thanks for your notes.
> > About your application.
> > 1. How is it different from Nepomuk the semantic desktop which
> Saurman et al have evolved into Refinder?
> > 2. There is also Kiwi the semantic wiki project that is in
> similar problem domain.
> > Interesting tid bit.
> > Reading your email google suggested a link to Jane Street. They
> are a trading house. I urge you to look them up if you are
> interested in the future of and application of functional programming.
> > Still I find myself very unsure what is being proposed when you
> say Protege may be wrapped in the interface or some other
> program. I find it difficult to get my head round this in the
> context of a human life span. Something that worked in Protege
> time t1 will work at t2 because the very complete application
> version including all configuration is made available? Or is
> Protege an example of a helper program that enables Liitin? In
> which case there is the other side of the same question.
> > In short how big or small are we thinking?
> > If we think on a smaller scale then the fluctuations that
> happen across a life time will undo us. If we think large scale
> then we are swamped by the size of something only distributed
> computing power and storage can deal with.
> > Or, again, we may assume the distributed framework and seek to
> establish a set of conventions through metadata tagging as to
> what passes my way I consider mine and what not mine.
> > I'm sure I've misunderstood all along but if this is the picture
> > 1. Why would I do this?
> > 2. How to prevent claiming everything as mine well at least in
> the domain of knowledge where claims of prior art and originality
> are important?
> > Perhaps the impulse not to share would be no greater than
> today, though.
> >
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > On 15 Sep 2011, at 14:08, "Jukka Tuominen"
> <jukka.tuominen@finndesign.fi> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Hi Adam,
> >>
> >> interesting thoughts and indeed difficult to have answered
> 'correctly'. They
> >> will eventually need to be answered, and are even likely to
> change during
> >> time and also geographically (culturally). Propably there will
> need to be
> >> global rules eventually, even lasting time.
> >>
> >> We have thought about these issues quite a lot (regarding
> Liitin). Below are
> >> some preliminary thoughts, feel free to comment on them to either
> >> consolidate or to return for reconsideration.
> >>
> >> - Each Liitin user (= namespace owner) can store either
> private or public
> >> data. Organisations may also have (pseudo) namespaces,
> behaving identically
> >> but just more identifiable namespace name. You cannot
> interfere with other
> >> namespaces other than view/execute/'import' to your own
> namespace in case
> >> they are made public (= simple save operation)
> >> - Format for Liitin object name is:  namespace:object-name
> >>
> >> A) Private data. This is considered as the user's private
> property. It does
> >> have all the same persistency properties as well, and the data
> (and methods
> >> among them) is supposed to follow you the whole life time. In
> this sense, it
> >> starts to resemble more personal memory rather than mere personal home
> >> directory. This data could/should have strong protection (even personal
> >> encryption hidden from any system administration), and once you die it
> >> remains protected (or erased) unless you have specifically exported
> >> information. BTW, private data was considered before public
> data as part of
> >> "Personal User Interface".
> >>
> >> B) Public data (= not private to anybody) needs to be free and not
> >> copyrighted once stored to Liitin (currently LGPL v3
> considered). This is
> >> extremely important, since there is not really a ownership concept in
> >> Liitin. You may be the originator, or a contributor, and
> similar things, but
> >> in practise when you make any changes to public objects, you
> always save
> >> them to your own namespace. Therefore, the connection between
> the namespace
> >> and the object is very loose and should not be associated with
> ownership.
> >> Say, you correct a spelling mistake and save the change. Eventhough all
> >> public objects should be 'common property', there will be cases that
> >> copyrights are violated or confidential information placed public by
> >> mistake. There are in-built methods to deal with these
> occasions. Naturally,
> >> they may (intentionally) break persistency if these objects
> are referred to
> >> after this point of time.
> >>
> >> Generally, there's a pretty good analogy to publishing information in
> >> newspaper, or carving information on pyramid walls.  It is public
> >> information thereafter - it is very difficult to undo it
> afterwards. "What
> >> happends in Internet stays in Internet" :)
> >>
> >> br, jukka
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Adam Saltiel [mailto:adam.saltiel@gmail.com]
> >>> Sent: 15 September 2011 14:47
> >>> To: Jukka Tuominen
> >>> Cc: <semantic-web@w3.org>
> >>> Subject: Re: New semantic web related project - Finndesign Liitin
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> All my data. The issue is two fold. Who am I. What data is mine.
> >>> Although I don't pretend to have an answer to the former I think
> >>> that most people would agree
> >>> 1. An answer to the later has bearing on the former.
> >>> 2. The answer to the former in so far as it is manifest in
> >>> behaviour has bearing on the later.
> >>>
> >>> This is
> >>> 1. A loop
> >>> 2. A subtle conundrum. If one influences the other what are the
> >>> possibilities that control and therefore influence will be that
> >>> of an agent not myself? But I said subtle. We shouldn't assume
> >>> that is undesirable. I drive down the street where all the other
> >>> vehicles ...
> >>> 3. Raises the obvious issue of data ownership. What with Omniture
> >>> and Google analytics and so. Even the raw legal issues are
> >>> unclear, at least to me. For instance one might think that a web
> >>> site displayed in your browser belongs to the web site
> >>> owner/publisher. It does. And that the data you enter into a form
> >>> belongs to? That is more complex.
> >>> But one thing. Anonymised data conclusions drawn at a time which
> >>> we don't have access to, may be the very thing we need for a
> >>> coherent picture of where we were or are now w.r.t. our
> intended activity.
> >>> Personally I am very unhappy about the data matrix of social
> >>> media but happier when I consider an intelligent environment.
> >>> There are some complex issues here.
> >>> Considering the huge amount of data and it's disparate origins I
> >>> take it that your task is to mediate between sets. But note how a
> >>> perfect memory or a memory of surprising detail (the past may be
> >>> reinterpreted in the light of hitherto hidden information) holds
> >>> it's own perils for human mortals. Not least that the aim of
> >>> coherence and identity through longevity may be undermined by the
> >>> mechanisms that attempt to establish this.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Best
> >>>
> >>> Adam
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
> >>> On 13 Sep 2011, at 12:44, "Jukka Tuominen"
> >>> <jukka.tuominen@finndesign.fi> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Hi all!
> >>>>
> >>>> I'd like to introduce you to a project that you may find
> interesting. It
> >>>> didn't start as specifically semantic web related, but perhaps
> >>> that's one of
> >>>> the reasons that it may bring a new perspective to it.
> >>>>
> >>>> There are many aspects to the project, but related to semantic
> >>> web I'd like
> >>>> to bring forward a few characteristics that you may find of
> particular
> >>>> interest.
> >>>>
> >>>> - Whereas software and hardware platforms come and go frequently, the
> >>>> essence of knowledge and methods may last from generations to
> >>> generations.
> >>>>
> >>>> - To be able/willing to build on top of somebody else's work,
> >>> you need to
> >>>> trust its future existance and predictable behaviour.
> >>>>
> >>>> - There are lots of great free software and utils out there
> >>> even today, but
> >>>> due to incompatibilities and overall complexity to setup a working
> >>>> environment, they are often out of the reach of most of us. Or
> >>> it's just not
> >>>> worth the trouble. You'd rather contribute to your own field of
> >>> expertise.
> >>>>
> >>>> Our project Finndesign Liitin is addressing these issues in a
> >>> new way, yet
> >>>> trying to keep it very simple to the user. You pretty much
> just walk/log
> >>>> into a ready-made environment, and will have access to all
> personal and
> >>>> public data and methods in a compatible and persistent manner.
> >>>>
> >>>> Please, have a look at the project page for details at
> >>>> http://liitin.finndesign.fi
> >>>>
> >>>> Eventhough I'm very interested in things that semantic web is
> >>> addressing, my
> >>>> primary field of expertise is in user interface design
> >>> (industrial design
> >>>> education). Therefore I'd be very interested in your
> >>> professional opinion on
> >>>> how Liitin might be suitable for your needs, or how it may need to be
> >>>> tweaked in order to suit it better.
> >>>>
> >>>> The project page may not cover all details, so I'd be glad answer any
> >>>> questions.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Best regards,
> >>>> Jukka Tuominen, Finndesign
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>
>
Received on Friday, 16 September 2011 15:39:09 UTC

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