- From: Jukka Tuominen <jukka.tuominen@finndesign.fi>
- Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2011 18:11:58 +0300
- To: "Adam Saltiel" <adam.saltiel@gmail.com>
- Cc: <semantic-web@w3.org>
I hope I mostly answered these issues already... at least kind of? I would still like to say aloud one thing that may be obvious even otherwise. That is; there are bound to be many already foreseeable problems and countless new issues to arise. However, I strongly believe that Liitin will have much more plusses than minuses. So, for the time being the focus is on exploration of possibilities and adaption to personal and communal life. I very much like the philosofical nature that you brought in. It will definitely help to see the big picture. Technical details is the easy part. Thanks again! br, jukka > -----Original Message----- > From: semantic-web-request@w3.org [mailto:semantic-web-request@w3.org]On > Behalf Of Adam Saltiel > Sent: 16 September 2011 15:36 > To: Adam Saltiel > Cc: Jukka Tuominen; <semantic-web@w3.org> > Subject: Re: New semantic web related project - Finndesign Liitin > > > This was sent without being quite finished. Better than being deleted -:) > I have read through your notes a couple of times. Your > distinction is between private and public. > I am also a psychoanalyst and that distinction is very important > in Psychoanalysis although, as the context is different, the > meaning is not the same. > I can't go into all of the issues I see about 'on line life' but > I think it is reasonable to emphasise that even for private, > public and lifetime the context is 'on line'. Specifically > reasons to share emerge in this context that are otherwise not > possible. We should also begin to understand - which is what > interests me - reasons not to share exist that range from > security, commercial, ordinary privacy, dislike of exploitation > and a mix of emotions and intentions that parallel repression but > are very context specific. (the Internet necessarily is highly > sensorially deprived. But note the abundant compensations for > this. The Internet is also highly addictive. Using this term informally.) > So an on line life captured over 50 years is not going to be my > life. But what will it be? > How might it help or hinder me? > I think, going back to my original email, I would expect it to > have influence over the availability of all information about me > and that is mine. That is to say the historical records of eg > Facebook and, to extend the point, the calculations Facebook > makes over data of which my data is a part. > This, of course, is a tall order. > > BR > > Adam > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 16 Sep 2011, at 13:02, Adam Saltiel <adam.saltiel@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Hi > > Thanks for your notes. > > About your application. > > 1. How is it different from Nepomuk the semantic desktop which > Saurman et al have evolved into Refinder? > > 2. There is also Kiwi the semantic wiki project that is in > similar problem domain. > > Interesting tid bit. > > Reading your email google suggested a link to Jane Street. They > are a trading house. I urge you to look them up if you are > interested in the future of and application of functional programming. > > Still I find myself very unsure what is being proposed when you > say Protege may be wrapped in the interface or some other > program. I find it difficult to get my head round this in the > context of a human life span. Something that worked in Protege > time t1 will work at t2 because the very complete application > version including all configuration is made available? Or is > Protege an example of a helper program that enables Liitin? In > which case there is the other side of the same question. > > In short how big or small are we thinking? > > If we think on a smaller scale then the fluctuations that > happen across a life time will undo us. If we think large scale > then we are swamped by the size of something only distributed > computing power and storage can deal with. > > Or, again, we may assume the distributed framework and seek to > establish a set of conventions through metadata tagging as to > what passes my way I consider mine and what not mine. > > I'm sure I've misunderstood all along but if this is the picture > > 1. Why would I do this? > > 2. How to prevent claiming everything as mine well at least in > the domain of knowledge where claims of prior art and originality > are important? > > Perhaps the impulse not to share would be no greater than > today, though. > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On 15 Sep 2011, at 14:08, "Jukka Tuominen" > <jukka.tuominen@finndesign.fi> wrote: > > > >> > >> Hi Adam, > >> > >> interesting thoughts and indeed difficult to have answered > 'correctly'. They > >> will eventually need to be answered, and are even likely to > change during > >> time and also geographically (culturally). Propably there will > need to be > >> global rules eventually, even lasting time. > >> > >> We have thought about these issues quite a lot (regarding > Liitin). Below are > >> some preliminary thoughts, feel free to comment on them to either > >> consolidate or to return for reconsideration. > >> > >> - Each Liitin user (= namespace owner) can store either > private or public > >> data. Organisations may also have (pseudo) namespaces, > behaving identically > >> but just more identifiable namespace name. You cannot > interfere with other > >> namespaces other than view/execute/'import' to your own > namespace in case > >> they are made public (= simple save operation) > >> - Format for Liitin object name is: namespace:object-name > >> > >> A) Private data. This is considered as the user's private > property. It does > >> have all the same persistency properties as well, and the data > (and methods > >> among them) is supposed to follow you the whole life time. In > this sense, it > >> starts to resemble more personal memory rather than mere personal home > >> directory. This data could/should have strong protection (even personal > >> encryption hidden from any system administration), and once you die it > >> remains protected (or erased) unless you have specifically exported > >> information. BTW, private data was considered before public > data as part of > >> "Personal User Interface". > >> > >> B) Public data (= not private to anybody) needs to be free and not > >> copyrighted once stored to Liitin (currently LGPL v3 > considered). This is > >> extremely important, since there is not really a ownership concept in > >> Liitin. You may be the originator, or a contributor, and > similar things, but > >> in practise when you make any changes to public objects, you > always save > >> them to your own namespace. Therefore, the connection between > the namespace > >> and the object is very loose and should not be associated with > ownership. > >> Say, you correct a spelling mistake and save the change. Eventhough all > >> public objects should be 'common property', there will be cases that > >> copyrights are violated or confidential information placed public by > >> mistake. There are in-built methods to deal with these > occasions. Naturally, > >> they may (intentionally) break persistency if these objects > are referred to > >> after this point of time. > >> > >> Generally, there's a pretty good analogy to publishing information in > >> newspaper, or carving information on pyramid walls. It is public > >> information thereafter - it is very difficult to undo it > afterwards. "What > >> happends in Internet stays in Internet" :) > >> > >> br, jukka > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: Adam Saltiel [mailto:adam.saltiel@gmail.com] > >>> Sent: 15 September 2011 14:47 > >>> To: Jukka Tuominen > >>> Cc: <semantic-web@w3.org> > >>> Subject: Re: New semantic web related project - Finndesign Liitin > >>> > >>> > >>> All my data. The issue is two fold. Who am I. What data is mine. > >>> Although I don't pretend to have an answer to the former I think > >>> that most people would agree > >>> 1. An answer to the later has bearing on the former. > >>> 2. The answer to the former in so far as it is manifest in > >>> behaviour has bearing on the later. > >>> > >>> This is > >>> 1. A loop > >>> 2. A subtle conundrum. If one influences the other what are the > >>> possibilities that control and therefore influence will be that > >>> of an agent not myself? But I said subtle. We shouldn't assume > >>> that is undesirable. I drive down the street where all the other > >>> vehicles ... > >>> 3. Raises the obvious issue of data ownership. What with Omniture > >>> and Google analytics and so. Even the raw legal issues are > >>> unclear, at least to me. For instance one might think that a web > >>> site displayed in your browser belongs to the web site > >>> owner/publisher. It does. And that the data you enter into a form > >>> belongs to? That is more complex. > >>> But one thing. Anonymised data conclusions drawn at a time which > >>> we don't have access to, may be the very thing we need for a > >>> coherent picture of where we were or are now w.r.t. our > intended activity. > >>> Personally I am very unhappy about the data matrix of social > >>> media but happier when I consider an intelligent environment. > >>> There are some complex issues here. > >>> Considering the huge amount of data and it's disparate origins I > >>> take it that your task is to mediate between sets. But note how a > >>> perfect memory or a memory of surprising detail (the past may be > >>> reinterpreted in the light of hitherto hidden information) holds > >>> it's own perils for human mortals. Not least that the aim of > >>> coherence and identity through longevity may be undermined by the > >>> mechanisms that attempt to establish this. > >>> > >>> > >>> Best > >>> > >>> Adam > >>> > >>> > >>> Sent from my iPhone > >>> > >>> On 13 Sep 2011, at 12:44, "Jukka Tuominen" > >>> <jukka.tuominen@finndesign.fi> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Hi all! > >>>> > >>>> I'd like to introduce you to a project that you may find > interesting. It > >>>> didn't start as specifically semantic web related, but perhaps > >>> that's one of > >>>> the reasons that it may bring a new perspective to it. > >>>> > >>>> There are many aspects to the project, but related to semantic > >>> web I'd like > >>>> to bring forward a few characteristics that you may find of > particular > >>>> interest. > >>>> > >>>> - Whereas software and hardware platforms come and go frequently, the > >>>> essence of knowledge and methods may last from generations to > >>> generations. > >>>> > >>>> - To be able/willing to build on top of somebody else's work, > >>> you need to > >>>> trust its future existance and predictable behaviour. > >>>> > >>>> - There are lots of great free software and utils out there > >>> even today, but > >>>> due to incompatibilities and overall complexity to setup a working > >>>> environment, they are often out of the reach of most of us. Or > >>> it's just not > >>>> worth the trouble. You'd rather contribute to your own field of > >>> expertise. > >>>> > >>>> Our project Finndesign Liitin is addressing these issues in a > >>> new way, yet > >>>> trying to keep it very simple to the user. You pretty much > just walk/log > >>>> into a ready-made environment, and will have access to all > personal and > >>>> public data and methods in a compatible and persistent manner. > >>>> > >>>> Please, have a look at the project page for details at > >>>> http://liitin.finndesign.fi > >>>> > >>>> Eventhough I'm very interested in things that semantic web is > >>> addressing, my > >>>> primary field of expertise is in user interface design > >>> (industrial design > >>>> education). Therefore I'd be very interested in your > >>> professional opinion on > >>>> how Liitin might be suitable for your needs, or how it may need to be > >>>> tweaked in order to suit it better. > >>>> > >>>> The project page may not cover all details, so I'd be glad answer any > >>>> questions. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Best regards, > >>>> Jukka Tuominen, Finndesign > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >> >
Received on Friday, 16 September 2011 15:39:09 UTC