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Re: Hackers - Re: Schema.org considered helpful

From: AzamatAbdoullaev <abdoul@cytanet.com.cy>
Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2011 18:32:33 +0300
Message-ID: <2DFA1C389EB64081BE18EC61ACD7C39B@personalpc>
To: "Henry Story" <henry.story@bblfish.net>
Cc: <semantic-web@w3.org>, <public-lod@w3.org>, "Harry Halpin" <hhalpin@ibiblio.org>, "adasal" <adam.saltiel@gmail.com>
-- Original Message ----- 
  From: Henry Story 
  To: AzamatAbdoullaev Azamat 
  Cc: semantic-web@w3.org ; public-lod@w3.org ; Harry Halpin ; adasal 
  Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 6:19 PM
  Subject: Re: Hackers - Re: Schema.org considered helpful




  On 18 Jun 2011, at 17:09, AzamatAbdoullaev wrote:


    HS wrote: "The recent discussions on this list were very much about how to avoid making distinctions unless you have to (Just-In-Time Distinctions?) So why are the above distinctions needed? Particularly with regard to this conversation."
    It concerns your talks, going under the overpromising and undelivering title, "Philosophy and the Social Web", starting from the epithet "the web is now philosophical engineering".
    Missing the distinctions is leading to such poor online services as the schema.org's types.


  What is missing is an argument from how not making four philosophical distinctions can lead to schema.org :-)


  I think the talk shows quite clearly how philosophy and the web are coming together at many different levels, from the philosophy of language and reference, to the philosophy of mind. I thought the talk was long enough as is. It took me quite a while to put together.


  But all that is talk. I am back to hacking away to build some of this stuff. 

  AA: Good luck, Henry. I believe, you can bring us something really valuable. 


  Henry




      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Henry Story
      To: AzamatAbdoullaev
      Cc: semantic-web@w3.org ; public-lod@w3.org ; Harry Halpin ; adasal
      Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 10:58 AM
      Subject: Re: Hackers - Re: Schema.org considered helpful




      On 18 Jun 2011, at 08:13, AzamatAbdoullaev wrote:


        HS: "I gave a talk on the philosophy of the Social Web if you are interested."
         http://www.slideshare.net/bblfish/philosophy-and-the-social-web-5583083

        For the specifics of TBL's motto, "the web as a philosophical engineering", see Harry's article:
        http://www.apaonline.org/publications/newsletters/v07n2_Computers_04.aspx
        Some interesting assertions: "we are not analyzing a world, we are building it. We are not experimental philosophers, we are philosophical engineers." ; "online intelligence is generated through complex causal interaction in an extended brain-body-environment system"; "The Web is ...the creation and evolution of external representations in a universal information space".
        I'd extend: if the the world wide web is "a universal information space", the semantic/ontological web is a universal knowledge space.
        And we need avoid confusing four fields: philosophical engineering, philosophy of engineering, engineering philosophy, and engineering of philosophy.


      The recent discussions on this list were very much about how to avoid making distinctions unless you have to (Just-In-Time Distinctions?) So why are the above distinctions needed? Particularly with regard to this conversation.




        Azamat

        ----- Original Message -----
          From: Henry Story
          To: adasal
          Cc: Lin Clark ; Bjoern Hoehrmann ; Linked Data community ; Semantic Web
          Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 8:48 PM
          Subject: Re: Hackers - Re: Schema.org considered helpful




          On 17 Jun 2011, at 19:27, adasal wrote:


            That said the hacker is a various beast,


          Indeed, hackers are not angels. But the people on this list should get back to hacking or work together with open source projects to get initial minimal working pieces embedded there. WebID is one; foaf is another, pingback, access control, ...
          Get the really simple pieces working.


            and I wonder if this sort of thing can really be addressed without overarching political/ethical/idealogical concerns. It's tough. 


          It all fits together really nicely. I gave a talk on the philosophy of the Social Web if you are interested.
           http://www.slideshare.net/bblfish/philosophy-and-the-social-web-5583083


          Hackers tend to be engineers with a political attitude, so they are more receptive to the bigger picture. But solving the big picture problem should have an easy entry cost if we want to get it going. 


          I talked to the BBC but they have limited themselves to what they will do in the Social Web space as far as profile hosting goes. Again, I'd start small. Facebook started in universities not that long ago.


          Henry




          Social Web Architect
          http://bblfish.net/






      Social Web Architect
      http://bblfish.net/






  Social Web Architect
  http://bblfish.net/
Received on Saturday, 18 June 2011 15:33:24 UTC

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