- From: Martin Hepp (UniBW) <martin.hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org>
- Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 15:26:10 +0200
- To: bnowack@semsol.com
- CC: semantic-web at W3C <semantic-web@w3c.org>
- Message-ID: <4A671372.8080301@ebusiness-unibw.org>
Hi Benjamin, all: First, thanks for the feedback! Second - I just completely updated the page - among other things, I added datatypes to xsd:string literals, reduced the complexity of the linking between visible content and meta-data (e.g. opening hours specs). All examples and content at * http://www.ebusiness-unibw.org/wiki/GoodRelations_and_Yahoo_SearchMonkey and the sample files at * http://www.heppnetz.de/searchmonkey/company.html and * http://www.heppnetz.de/searchmonkey/product.html validate now with Yahoo! tools, W3C Markup Validation tools, and the RDF Validator (after extraction via pyRDFa). As to your points: Benjamin Nowack wrote: > Interesting. I guess this is another argument/example pro Hugh > Glaser's idea of simply conflating resource IDs for the sake of > "deployability". The example types <#business> as Vcard, Business > and also as BusinessEntity which would usually be considered wrong > RDF, but, as argued before, is more intuitive for HTML authors, > especially if they found their way to the SemWeb through pragmatic > solutions like microformats. We should really give this contextual > semantics idea another thought. > Actually, I disagree completely. Conflating multiple resources under one URI is deadly, because it comprises reuse and recombination of data. In my example, commerce:Business and gr:BusinessEntity are practically equivalent classes, so this pair is rather a schema alignment than using one URI for distinct things. Making the business entity also an instance of vcard:VCard is only because the upcoming vCard2006 cleansing is not yet available, in which the domain of vcard:adr is likely to be changed from vcard:VCard to a wider set of classes, because most locations, persons, or legal entities can have addresses - not only via your vcard. (You do have an address, not your business card.). So again, this was only a work-around introduced by Yahoo! to make the whole thing fly now, not later. And the ontological nature of vcard:VCard is now understood pretty broad, subsuming commerce:Business and gr:BusinessEntity. > (I fear you'll lose a significant chunk of the possible audience at > "change your DTD" and "add ... to the head tag", these sort of tweaks > are not necessarily easy to do in CMS-based or commercial publishing > tools unless there is a dedicated plugin that is not erased with the > next site upgrade. For root/head-level changes, the content *authors* > have to coordinate their tasks with the tech/site *admins*, which > leads to non-trivial friction loss and hence lowers the deployment > probability.) > Well, there is nothing I can do about that, it is simply an important technical requirement. If you omit it, the content will no longer validate and data extraction and reuse turns from a predictable computational operation into probabilistic guesswork: it may work, or it may not. Then you are back in the realm of pure NLP. (almost ;-). Note that Drupal now has a mode that activates an automatic DOCTYPE replacement for serving RDFa. More info at: http://drupal.org/node/391372 I think that at least such basic RDFa support will soon be a mandatory feature for any CMS on the market. > A general suggestion would be to keep the added markup at a minimum, > until GR is more deployed and people start asking for more on their > own. Remove as many non-mandatory descriptions as possible, at least > if the recipes are targeted at newcomers. Stuff like > "ProductOrServicesSomeInstancesPlaceholder" or > "LocationOfSalesOrServiceProvisioning" is probably not very > attractive to web dev people who are only just getting acquainted > with structured markup and want to check out if/how it works. > Well - some of the element names in GoodRelations may be a bit long, but it was initially important to convey the precise meaning. Some could be shortened, but at this stage of quick adoption, I think a few characters more or less are not worth risking additional incompatibilities between evolving applications and data. Also note that a typical shop etc. may have just a few HTML templates for e.g. the company and the product detail pages. Ten lines of additional markup may be worth it. > I *personally* think that RDF-in-HTML snippets are most convincing > when the amount of additional RDF markup does not outweigh the > human-oriented content. IMO, there is dangerous tendency in part of current Web of Data research: After the frustration about the complexity (and limited impact) of logic-centric work, many researchers now want to keep things deadly simple. If you want really powerful meta-data, things will be more complex than adding "dc:title", I am afraid. > Otherwise it becomes hard to track the > initial meaning of the page and examples become less illustrative. > Maybe drop some of the @typeofs which repeat the @rel values (e.g. > as in > <div rel="gr:hasOpeningHoursSpecification"> > <div typeof="gr:OpeningHoursSpecification"> > ), Maybe I did not get it, but I do not see a way how you can drop any of those without compromising the data - the typeofs are important for typing the nodes and the rels are important for typing the relationships. > or cheat visually by picking some shorter, less Cyc/AI-like > predicate names, perhaps? > As said - there may be some cleansing for element IDs in the future, but all current GoodRelations updates will not invalidate any pre-existing data or applications. Note that in the LOD cloud, there are now already 1 Million instances of gr:ProductOrServiceModel, some 45 k instances of gr:BusinessEntity, both not yet including the vast amount of data from the new RDF Book Mashup at http://www4.wiwiss.fu-berlin.de/bizer/bookmashup/ that exposes a large deal of book offers on the Web as GoodRelations data. > Just some thoughts, > Benji > Again, thanks for the feedback! Best Martin > -- > Benjamin Nowack > http://bnode.org/ > http://semsol.com/ > > On 21.07.2009 19:42:00, Martin Hepp (UniBW) wrote: > >> Dear all: >> >> I just completed a recipe meant for larger audiences (Web developers, >> SEO companies) on how a business can enrich its pages using >> RDFa+GoodRelations so that the data >> - shows up in Yahoo AND >> - it at the same time useful for comprehensive RDF applications. >> >> The recipe is at >> >> http://tr.im/rAbN >> >> It tries to combine pure recipes from the RDF world with the "Web >> developer's" how-tos provided by Yahoo. >> >> Any feedback is very welcome. >> >> Best >> >> Martin Hepp >> >> > -- -------------------------------------------------------------- martin hepp e-business & web science research group universitaet der bundeswehr muenchen e-mail: mhepp@computer.org phone: +49-(0)89-6004-4217 fax: +49-(0)89-6004-4620 www: http://www.unibw.de/ebusiness/ (group) http://www.heppnetz.de/ (personal) skype: mfhepp twitter: mfhepp Check out the GoodRelations vocabulary for E-Commerce on the Web of Data! ======================================================================== Webcast: http://www.heppnetz.de/projects/goodrelations/webcast/ Talk at the Semantic Technology Conference 2009: "Semantic Web-based E-Commerce: The GoodRelations Ontology" http://tinyurl.com/semtech-hepp Tool for registering your business: http://www.ebusiness-unibw.org/tools/goodrelations-annotator/ Overview article on Semantic Universe: http://tinyurl.com/goodrelations-universe Project page and resources for developers: http://purl.org/goodrelations/ Tutorial materials: Tutorial at ESWC 2009: The Web of Data for E-Commerce in One Day: A Hands-on Introduction to the GoodRelations Ontology, RDFa, and Yahoo! SearchMonkey http://www.ebusiness-unibw.org/wiki/GoodRelations_Tutorial_ESWC2009
Received on Wednesday, 22 July 2009 13:26:57 UTC