- From: Harry Halpin <hhalpin@ibiblio.org>
- Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 17:47:42 +0100
- To: "John F. Sowa" <sowa@bestweb.net>
- Cc: semantic-web@w3.org, Frank Manola <fmanola@acm.org>, Adrian Walker <adrianw@snet.net>, "Peter F. Patel-Schneider" <pfps@research.bell-labs.com>, psp@virtualTaos.net, ONTAC-WG General Discussion <ontac-forum@colab.cim3.net>
Quick notes: 1) There is, as far as I can tell, no good theories of pragmatics that are capable of being formalized. "Pragmatics", at least in linguistics where I come from, is usually a sort of fuzzy "hand-waving" solution to any hard problem, much as the terms "world-knowledge" and "common-sense" knowledge are. Whenever I hear the word pragmatics I want to reach for my axe :) Now, if someone has a good theory formal pragmatics, go for it and forward me the links off-list, but I bet is that pragmatics are too context-dependent to formalize properly. So, blaming the SemWeb for not doing pragmatics is a bit unfair. 2) Re syntax, XML people *like* XML, just in the same manner as McCarthy was somewhat shocked to find out people actually liked programming in S-Expressions. Also, RDF is not a programming language. Therefore, one can do great RDF processing in LISP, where one can car and cdr (head and tail) to one's delight. It seems like because it has a formal semantics, once could define a multiplicity of syntax. Lastly, the SemWeb is a stack, and the logic programming parts of it are in development right now - I'm sure Sandro can tell us more, and they just e-mailed their requirements to this list. John F. Sowa wrote: > Leonid and Henry, > > I am very much in sympathy with Leonid's comments, > *especially* with the point that pragmatics comes first > in any kind of design, semantics comes next, and syntax > should be tailored to the semantics and the pragmatics. > >> Let me add some more items to the things you like . >> - To extend the Triples approach by the Classificaton Theory >> integrated with Measurment Theory ; >> - To use the Pragmatics above the Semantics ; >> - To use the Pragmatism "relativity" between Ontology and >> Epistemology(Cognitology); >> - To add the VSM of Stafford Beer >> (http://www.ototsky.mgn.ru/it/beer_vsm.html) >> to Upper Ontology ; >> - To add the "metasystem transition" as "natural generalization" way. >> --------------------------- >> See some more details in - http://ototsky.mgn.ru/it/21abreast.htm > > > The details of the systems Leonid cites are very interesting > and should be considered, but there are also a lot of other > interesting systems that should be considered. I don't want > to obscure the important principle above by quibbling over > the other details. > > The following comment by Henry illustrates the difficulty: > > > OWL and RDF are not a syntax. They are a semantics. If you want > > to make your life easier just use Turtle, or if you want more > > power than what has yet been standardized, use N3. Here is an > > atom feed rewritten using N3 (turtle) syntax with the AtomOwl > > ontology [2] > > In politics, statements like the first two sentences above are > technically known as "spin". Although I was not involved in the > design of RDF and OWL, I have read and heard enough about the > process to know that the designers went through enormously > complex contortions to shoehorn the finally agreed semantics > into the syntax policy that was edicted a priori. > > Any syntax that is so difficult to use that it requires all the > effort that Tim Bray and others expended on it just to express > triples (and which Tim admits was a mistake) has something > seriously wrong with it. And if it requires tools as powerful > as Turtle and N3 to make it humanly usable, that is further > evidence that something is very seriously wrong. And if the > result is so bloated that it requires compression algorithms > to reduce storage space and transmission time, that is > abundant evidence that something is horribly wrong. > > The *only* argument that makes the slightest amount of sense > is that the RDF and OWL syntax enables the reuse of parsers > designed for XML. That argument is undermined by the very > simple observation that the notation (R arg1 arg2 ... argN) > can be parsed with two functions built into many languages. > > In many commonly used languages, the two functions are called > Head and Tail. But whatever they are called, they provide > a two-operator parser that comes for free with the language: > > 1. For any tuple list L, Head(L) is the first tuple, and > Tail(L) is the remaining list. > > 2. For any tuple T, Head(T) is the relation name, and > Tail(T) is the list of arguments. > > Henry's example (copy below) illustrates the kind of metalevel > notation that is valuable for large documents (and in some cases > even for a single tuple). But in many applications, it is > counterproductive for the metalevel to overwhelm the content. > If you have a billion tuples (as many systems do), you don't > want to annotate every last one of them individually. > > Recommendation: Allow RDF and OWL to remain as they are, but > provide an optional form along the lines of the tuple list I > suggested in my previous note. If you want to annotate a single > tuple in the form Henry suggested, then use the following notation. > But if you have a billion tuples (or even just a dozen), factor > out the metanotation and put the content in a simple tuple list. > > As Tim Bray commented about the mistakes in the design of RDF: > > It's the syntax, stupid! > > John Sowa > __________________________________________________________________ > > [ a :Feed, :Version; > > :title [ :value "Example Feed"; > :type "text/plain" ]; > :link [ :href <http://example.org/>; > :rel iana:alternate ]; > :updated "2003-12-13T18:30:02Z"^^xsd:dateTime; > :author [ :name "John Doe" ]; > :id <urn:uuid:60a76c80-d399-11d9-b93C-0003939e0af6>; > > :entry [ a :Entry, :Version; > :title [ :value "Atom-Powered Robots Run Amok"; > :type "text/plain" ]; > :link [ :href <http://example.org/2003/12/13/atom03>; > :rel iana:alternate ]; > :id <urn:uuid:1225c695-cfb8-4ebb-aaaa-80da344efa6a>; > :updated "2003-12-13T18:30:02Z"^^xsd:dateTime; > :summary [ :value "some text"; > :type "text/plain" ] > ]; > ] . >
Received on Wednesday, 29 March 2006 16:47:48 UTC