W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > semantic-web@w3.org > June 2006

Re: CURIEs: A proposal

From: Mark Birbeck <mark.birbeck@x-port.net>
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 02:12:20 +0100
Message-ID: <640dd5060606271812o5a22cdbfraf53175444fd6d6@mail.gmail.com>
To: public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf@w3.org
Cc: semantic-web@w3.org, www-tag@w3.org

Hi Harry,

Useful comments, thanks.

> This is exactly the point of my previous e-mail in this thread: It is
> logically impossible for CURIEs to be in a superset of QNames, because
> CURIEs are "abbreviations for URIs" and QNames are *not* abbreviations
> for URIs in the general case. QNames merely use a URI to disambiguate
> local names, and at this task they work fine. Even if one *assumes
> concantentation* as a default rule for constructing URIs out of QNames
> (which is not in the QName spec at all), then as abbreviations for all
> possible URIs, they are poor - but that wasn't their intended purpose.
> So, part of the problem is that CURIEs are advertising themselves as
> replacements or fixes for QNames. I think this reveals a misreading of
> QNames and this only detracts from the quite good case CURIEs can make
> for themselves.

The thing is that CURIEs don't (or perhaps that should read "shouldn't
be claiming to" ;) set out to be a superset of QNames, which I will
try to explain.

As you say, QNames are very clearly defined in the XML namespaces
specification, as essentially a way to create scoped names for
elements and attributes. This is rather a nice trick, and if you are a
language author it gives you a ready made token for creating scoped
names in other places, such as XPath functions or XML Schema

Unfortunately, what has happened is that this rather useful snippet of
BNF that defines 'a:b' has come to be used in all sorts of places, to
define scoped names that sometimes don't even have any relationship to
the original purpose of QNames. So XML Schema creates a datatype
called "xsd:string", and says that this prefix/suffix combination
should be interpreted using the definition of QNames. XPath functions
does the same...as does SPARQL, and so on.

As Henry pointed out in another discussion with me, the XML Schema
authors were perfectly entitled to use the BNF for QNames to define
their datatypes. But the tricky bit is that QNames only defines how to
use the namespaces that are defined in prefixes, when the prefix
occurs in an XML element or attribute. If the QName is used to define
something else--even something inside an attribute, like
xsi:type="xsd:string"--then you don't get the namespaces 'fix-up' for
free, and you have to explain how it's done in your particular
language. (For example, XPath uses namespaces from the evaluation
context, XSLT uses namespaces in the document, etc.)

So, out of the box, QNames gives you *only* a nice handy piece of BNF
to describe the a:b syntax, and--if you are defining elements and
attributes--it gives you a way to use a value from a namespace
declaration instead of your prefix. To use it in XML content, like
attributes, you have to define the namespace rules yourself. (And run
the risk of losing the namespaces, as we discussed recently!)

But there's more--QNames has not only been 'stretched' to cover any
scoped names that want to use namespaces. but they've also been used
to define URL creation rules. With this we get yet another layer on
top of our original QName BNF.

Which brings us to CURIEs; one of the reasons I wrote the CURIEs
proposal was that it seemed to me that this situation could be
clarified by making explicit the things that people had been (ab)using
QNames for in the past. If people want to reuse the BNF to describe
this convenient syntax, for use in other langauges, why not take it
out into a separate spec? Then we can define the behaviour when used
anywhere, whether in attribute and element names, inside attributes,
etc, and also define how URLs are created from these prefix/suffix

But in the process, we should change the name so that it's not
confusing, with the bonus that this would allow us to leave the term
QName for what it currently is--a bit of BNF, with some rules for how
namespaces are used in *element and attribute* names.

I do favour keep the same *syntax* though, so that current documents
remain backwards compatible, should the language that defines them
choose to use CURIEs.

In summary, QNames have been stretched and pulled; there's nothing
necessarily wrong with that, since it reflects a real need, but the
idea of CURIEs is to try to 'tidy up' this overuse. If we do it right,
we could end up with a term that we all agree on, rather than the very
broad term 'QName', which we have at the moment, and as you rightly
say Harry, no-one actually really knows what it means.



Mark Birbeck
x-port.net Ltd.

e: Mark.Birbeck@x-port.net
t: +44 (0) 20 7689 9232
w: http://www.formsPlayer.com/
b: http://internet-apps.blogspot.com/

Download our XForms processor from
Received on Wednesday, 28 June 2006 01:12:29 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Tuesday, 5 July 2022 08:44:57 UTC