- From: Dimitre Novatchev <dnovatchev@gmail.com>
- Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2025 11:09:47 -0800
- To: Norm Tovey-Walsh <norm@saxonica.com>
- Cc: public-xslt-40@w3.org
- Message-ID: <CAK4KnZd9UtmQa_kUxa9EScY4kzjrL1DEsV2ONOvyH7nStr-2rQ@mail.gmail.com>
> * DN: I think we shouldn't discuss an issue if the original author
> isn't present.
> * NW: I think it's more important to make *progress*.
Something that is omitted here: then I rephrased to:
"We will move the triaging of any issues whose original author is not
present at the meeting to the end of the queue".
There were no objections to this rephrased rule for triaging.
We need to define "progress": is this just closing the issue (even without
enough understanding), or ruling on it with understanding, most of which
comes from the author of said issue?
Maybe, if we don't want to have much to do *at any cost*, then probably we
shouldn't have joined this CG in the first place?
Probably a good practice would be in the future to address any new issue,
after a predefined, meaningful period, say 2 months, to avoid the
accumulation of issues that are years old?
Thanks,
Dimitre.
On Tue, Feb 11, 2025 at 9:24 AM Norm Tovey-Walsh <norm@saxonica.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Here are the minutes from today’s meeting:
>
> https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2025/02-11.html
>
> The latest builds are failing on a schema error. That’ll get sorted out
> asap.
>
> QT4 CG Meeting 109 Minutes 2025-02-11
>
> [1]Meeting index / [2]QT4CG.org / [3]Dashboard / [4]GH Issues / [5]GH
> Pull Requests
>
> Table of Contents
>
> * [6]Draft Minutes
> * [7]Summary of new and continuing actions [0/10]
> * [8]1. Administrivia
> + [9]1.1. Roll call [8/13]
> + [10]1.2. Accept the agenda
> o [11]1.2.1. Status so far...
> + [12]1.3. Approve minutes of the previous meeting
> + [13]1.4. Next meeting
> + [14]1.5. Review of open action items [6/10]
> + [15]1.6. Review of open pull requests and issues
> o [16]1.6.1. Blocked
> o [17]1.6.2. Merge without discussion
> o [18]1.6.3. Close without action
> o [19]1.6.4. Substantive PRs
> * [20]2. Technical agenda
> + [21]2.1. PR #1769: Add links from processing model diagrams
> + [22]2.2. PR #1772: 1770 Default priority of rules with a union
> pattern
> + [23]2.3. PR #1773: 402 Change the semantics of intersect and
> except in patterns
> + [24]2.4. PR #1782: 1776 Add lookup patterns using ? and ??
> + [25]2.5. PR #1784: 1781 Drop obsolete material from XSLT spec
> + [26]2.6. Issue triage
> o [27]2.6.1. Issue #1537: XSLT: local functions within an
> enclosing xsl:mode
> o [28]2.6.2. Issue #1584: Review the XML Schema and RELAX
> NG schemas for XSLT 4.0 for compatibility
> o [29]2.6.3. Issue #1631: xsl:apply-templates (without
> select) should allow inline content
> o [30]2.6.4. Issue #1698: Allow select attribute for
> xsl:call-template instruction
> o [31]2.6.5. Issue #1724: Allow @copy-namespaces on
> <xsl:mode>?
> o [32]2.6.6. Issue #1742: Maps constructed using streamed
> xsl:fork instruction should not be ordered
> o [33]2.6.7. Issue #1777: Shallow copy in XSLT with maps
> and arrays
> * [34]3. Any other business
> * [35]4. Adjourned
>
> Draft Minutes
>
> Summary of new and continuing actions [0/10]
>
> * [ ] QT4CG-082-02: DN to work with MK to come to agreement on the
> fn:ranks proposal
> * [ ] QT4CG-097-02: MK to make the XSD schema component references
> into links to XSD
> * [ ] QT4CG-107-01: MK to amend PR 1722 so the expansion of focus
> functions includes the return type item()*
> * [ ] QT4CG-107-05: JLO and DN to consider a proposal for system
> defined records.
> * [ ] QT4CG-109-01: NW add JSON to the processing model diagrams
> along side XML
> * [ ] QT4CG-109-02: NW to look again at adding tooltips to the
> diagrams
>
> 1. Administrivia
>
> 1.1. Roll call [8/13]
>
> Regrets: CG, WP, JLO, BTW.
> * [X] David J Birnbaum (DB)
> * [X] Reece Dunn (RD)
> * [ ] Sasha Firsov (SF)
> * [ ] Christian Gr¸n (CG)
> * [X] Joel Kalvesmaki (JK)
> * [X] Michael Kay (MK)
> * [ ] Juri Leino (JLO)
> * [X] John Lumley (JWL)
> * [X] Dimitre Novatchev (DN)
> * [ ] Wendell Piez (WP)
> * [X] Ed Porter (EP)
> * [ ] Bethan Tovey-Walsh (BTW)
> * [X] Norm Tovey-Walsh (NW). Scribe. Chair.
>
> 1.2. Accept the agenda
>
> Proposal: Accept [36]the agenda.
>
> Accepted.
>
> 1.2.1. Status so far...
>
> These charts have been adjusted so they reflect the preceding six
> months of work.
>
> issues-open-2025-02-11.png
>
> Figure 1: "Burn down" chart on open issues
>
> issues-by-spec-2025-02-11.png
>
> Figure 2: Open issues by specification
>
> issues-by-type-2025-02-11.png
>
> Figure 3: Open issues by type
>
> 1.3. Approve minutes of the previous meeting
>
> Proposal: Accept [37]the minutes of the previous meeting.
>
> Accepted.
>
> 1.4. Next meeting
>
> The next meeting is planned for 18 February 2025.
>
> CG gives regrets 18 February.
>
> 1.5. Review of open action items [6/10]
>
> (Items marked [X] are believed to have been closed via email before
> this agenda was posted.)
> * [ ] QT4CG-082-02: DN to work with MK to come to agreement on the
> fn:ranks proposal
> * [ ] QT4CG-097-02: MK to make the XSD schema component references
> into links to XSD
> * [X] QT4CG-103-01: MK to add an example of showing all the
> properties for an untyped node.
> + Withdrawn: "Too difficult"
> * [ ] QT4CG-107-01: MK to amend PR 1722 so the expansion of focus
> functions includes the return type item()*
> * [X] QT4CG-107-02: MK to propose adding the "duplicates" option
> (from map:merge) to map:build and map:of-pairs
> * [X] QT4CG-107-03: MK to propose amending all the functions that
> return ordered maps so that when duplicates are found, the key of
> the combined entry is taken from the first of the duplicates.
> * [X] QT4CG-107-04: MK to review CG's comment to align fn:map-merge
> by removing the reference to random number generator and fixing a
> typo.
> * [ ] QT4CG-107-05: JLO and DN to consider a proposal for system
> defined records.
> * [X] QT4CG-108-01: JWL look at the extra fn: prefixes introduced by
> the stylesheets in the binary spec
> * [X] QT4CG-108-02: NW to add links and tooltips to the new
> processing model diagrams
>
> 1.6. Review of open pull requests and issues
>
> 1.6.1. Blocked
>
> The following PRs are open but have merge conflicts or comments which
> suggest they aren't ready for action.
> * PR [38]#1587: 557 Add fn:binary-resource
> * PR [39]#1296: 982 Rewrite of scan-left and scan-right
> * PR [40]#1283: 77b Update expressions
> * PR [41]#1062: 150bis revised proposal for fn:ranks
> * PR [42]#1227: 150 PR resubmission for fn ranks
>
> 1.6.2. Merge without discussion
>
> The following PRs are editorial, small, or otherwise appeared to be
> uncontroversial when the agenda was prepared. The chairs propose that
> these can be merged without discussion. If you think discussion is
> necessary, please say so.
> * PR [43]#1767: 1729/1737 Fix grammar for "declare record"
> * PR [44]#1765: 1751 Clarify BOM handling
> * PR [45]#1761: 1752 Correct return type of fn:partition()
> * PR [46]#1783: 1779 Make CharRef XQuery-only (added during the
> meeting)
>
> Proposal: merge these PRs without discussion.
>
> Accepted.
>
> 1.6.3. Close without action
>
> It has been proposed that the following issues be closed without
> action. If you think discussion is necessary, please say so.
> * Issue [47]#877: Inconsistency in XQFO comparator
> functions/operators with recursive rules
> * Issue [48]#755: with expression; chaining and concatenation
>
> Proposal: close these issues without further action.
>
> Accepted.
>
> 1.6.4. Substantive PRs
>
> The following substantive PRs were open when this agenda was prepared.
> * PR [49]#1769: Add links from processing model diagrams
> * PR [50]#1772: 1770 Default priority of rules with a union pattern
> * PR [51]#1773: 402 Change the semantics of intersect and except in
> patterns
> * PR [52]#1782: 1776 Add lookup patterns using ? and ??
> * PR [53]#1784: 1781 Drop obsolete material from XSLT spec
> * PR [54]#1766: 1715 Drop array bound checking
> * PR [55]#1783: 1779 Make CharRef XQuery-only
> * PR [56]#1778: 1456 Lookup expressions filtered by type
> * PR [57]#1763: 1716 Generalize syntax of arrow expressions
> * PR [58]#1740: 1725b Further elaboration of duplicates handling in
> maps
> * PR [59]#1735: 1341 Drop $position callback from many functions
>
> 2. Technical agenda
>
> 2.1. PR #1769: Add links from processing model diagrams
>
> See PR [60]#1769.
>
> ACTION QT4CG-109-01: NW add JSON to the processing model diagrams along
> side XML
>
> ACTION QT4CG-109-02: NW to look again at adding tooltips to the
> diagrams
> * NW: This PR is unlikely to run afoul of merge conflicts, so let's
> just leave it open.
>
> 2.2. PR #1772: 1770 Default priority of rules with a union pattern
>
> See PR [61]#1772.
>
> MK introduces the PR.
> * MK: The priority rules for union patterns have become more
> complicated over time.
> + ... Treating them as separate template rules with a different
> priority has odd consequences for xsl:next-match
> + ... And in 4.0 we've invented new things that are equivalent
> to union patterns.
> + ... Trying to fix various edge cases lead me to take an axe to
> it.
> * JK: I like the proposal. I tried to replicate the double-triggering
> of xsl:next-match but failed.
> * MK: There are test cases that do it, but it's very obscure.
> * JWL: I agree with this one. If you're playing around with default
> priorities in unions where it's starting to get complicated, you
> have to be on the ball. This will simplify things.
>
> Proposal: Merge this PR.
>
> Accepted.
>
> 2.3. PR #1773: 402 Change the semantics of intersect and except in patterns
>
> See PR [62]#1773.
> * MK: This is in the same area, but is completely separate. These are
> the rules for matching.
> + ... The problem here is that the current specification of
> intersect and except does something so woefully unexpected
> that we should treat it as bug.
> + ... The incompatibility is explained in a note.
>
> Proposal: Merge this PR.
>
> Accepted.
>
> 2.4. PR #1782: 1776 Add lookup patterns using ? and ??
>
> See PR [63]#1782.
>
> Not ready for discussion.
>
> 2.5. PR #1784: 1781 Drop obsolete material from XSLT spec
>
> See PR [64]#1784.
> * MK: Hopefully, this is uncontroversial.
> + ... A lot of section numbers have changed, so the diff is hard
> to follow.
> + ... Section 23 (processing JSON data) has gone and so has
> Appendix B (XML representation of JSON)
> + ... These were basically historical relics.
>
> Proposal: Merge this PR.
>
> Accepted.
>
> 2.6. Issue triage
>
> 2.6.1. Issue [65]#1537: XSLT: local functions within an enclosing xsl:mode
>
> * MK: I'd make it optional; I've encountered it, and several users
> have asked.
> * JWL: I think the issue is go for effectively the enclosed mode
> being a scope; in which case functions, variables could be in
> there. How far do we go?
> + Somtimes you want scoped local variables and you need tunnels
> all the way down.
>
> 2.6.2. Issue [66]#1584: Review the XML Schema and RELAX NG schemas for XSLT
> 4.0 for compatibility
>
> * NW: I'll do it closer to the end of the process.
>
> 2.6.3. Issue [67]#1631: xsl:apply-templates (without select) should allow
> inline content
>
> * JWL: I think we should drop it; there are easy enough alternatives.
> * MK: I agree.
> * DN: I think we shouldn't discuss an issue if the original author
> isn't present.
> * NW: I think it's more important to make progress.
>
> 2.6.4. Issue [68]#1698: Allow select attribute for xsl:call-template
> instruction
>
> * MK: I've vacillated on this. When I see an xsl:for-each just to
> change the context for a template, that's horrible. But then
> there's debate about where the context setting goes. Outside, it's
> just a different way of spelling "for each". Inside has more appeal
> but is less generic.
> * JK: I vote "required-optional". We can already do this, but maybe
> someone will write a proposal.
> * RD: I concur it should be optional. I wonder if it's more
> expressive to have the with-context as an equivalent of with-param.
> Putting the context within the call-template.
> * MK: That's one of the suggestions.
> * MK: Another question here is to what extent we want to integrate
> the idea of a context value in to XSLT. It was introduced for
> XQuery because people doing databases have always wanted an
> expression beginning with "/" to search the whole database not just
> one document.
> + ... If we're adding the ability to set the context here, do we
> want to allow it to be a general value not just an item.
> * JWL: When talking about where the select would go, do we still have
> the proposal for a form of call-template that's an extension of an
> expression?
> * MK: Yes, there's probably a relation to it.
>
> 2.6.5. Issue [69]#1724: Allow @copy-namespaces on <xsl:mode>?
>
> * JK: For the purposes for triage, I'd vote optional.
> * MK: I think my main reservation is that when people want to remove
> namespaces, they don't quite know what they're asking for.
> + ... The related issues have to do with copying with a change
> of namespace.
> * DB: That's related, but I don't think it subsumes this issues.
>
> 2.6.6. Issue [70]#1742: Maps constructed using streamed xsl:fork
> instruction
> should not be ordered
>
> * MK: In a sense, it's subsumed by a general issue that we have to
> review streamability. We've neglected the whole area.
> + ... We can't close this without some resolution.
>
> 2.6.7. Issue [71]#1777: Shallow copy in XSLT with maps and arrays
>
> * MK: This is the area I'm currently working on. It's required that
> we do something in this area.
> + ... I'm currently trying to write a recursive decent processor
> on JSON that I hope will inform proposals in this area.
>
> 3. Any other business
>
> None heard.
>
> 4. Adjourned
>
> References
>
> 1. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/
> 2. https://qt4cg.org/
> 3. https://qt4cg.org/dashboard
> 4. https://github.com/qt4cg/qtspecs/issues
> 5. https://github.com/qt4cg/qtspecs/pulls
> 6. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2025/02-11.html#minutes
> 7. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2025/02-11.html#new-actions
> 8. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2025/02-11.html#administrivia
> 9. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2025/02-11.html#roll-call
> 10. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2025/02-11.html#agenda
> 11. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2025/02-11.html#so-far
> 12. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2025/02-11.html#approve-minutes
> 13. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2025/02-11.html#next-meeting
> 14. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2025/02-11.html#open-actions
> 15. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2025/02-11.html#open-pull-requests
> 16. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2025/02-11.html#blocked
> 17.
> https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2025/02-11.html#merge-without-discussion
> 18.
> https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2025/02-11.html#close-without-action
> 19. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2025/02-11.html#substantive
> 20. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2025/02-11.html#technical-agenda
> 21. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2025/02-11.html#pr-1769
> 22. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2025/02-11.html#pr-1772
> 23. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2025/02-11.html#pr-1773
> 24. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2025/02-11.html#pr-1782
> 25. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2025/02-11.html#pr-1784
> 26. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2025/02-11.html#issue-triage
> 27.
> https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2025/02-11.html#h-F7FABABE-B3F3-4D26-B7B8-96A0BE7086FA
> 28.
> https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2025/02-11.html#h-431874BE-254F-4499-ACF5-863D62329A86
> 29.
> https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2025/02-11.html#h-2F817CFB-2C99-452C-9742-8C85BBD5CD19
> 30.
> https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2025/02-11.html#h-E2EF5877-14B9-4E72-9736-3F15DD4CD2F2
> 31.
> https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2025/02-11.html#h-D2ED69CD-C8C7-4752-AD19-8FE7CB10E86C
> 32.
> https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2025/02-11.html#h-501EC430-48CB-4CF3-BAC4-E28E32D8CD87
> 33.
> https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2025/02-11.html#h-4606BAC9-9EEC-449F-BBB1-A81B951AAFCF
> 34. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2025/02-11.html#any-other-business
> 35. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2025/02-11.html#adjourned
> 36. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/agenda/2025/02-11.html
> 37. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2025/02-04.html
> 38. https://qt4cg.org/dashboard/#pr-1587
> 39. https://qt4cg.org/dashboard/#pr-1296
> 40. https://qt4cg.org/dashboard/#pr-1283
> 41. https://qt4cg.org/dashboard/#pr-1062
> 42. https://qt4cg.org/dashboard/#pr-1227
> 43. https://qt4cg.org/dashboard/#pr-1767
> 44. https://qt4cg.org/dashboard/#pr-1765
> 45. https://qt4cg.org/dashboard/#pr-1761
> 46. https://qt4cg.org/dashboard/#pr-1783
> 47. https://github.com/qt4cg/qtspecs/issues/877
> 48. https://github.com/qt4cg/qtspecs/issues/755
> 49. https://qt4cg.org/dashboard/#pr-1769
> 50. https://qt4cg.org/dashboard/#pr-1772
> 51. https://qt4cg.org/dashboard/#pr-1773
> 52. https://qt4cg.org/dashboard/#pr-1782
> 53. https://qt4cg.org/dashboard/#pr-1784
> 54. https://qt4cg.org/dashboard/#pr-1766
> 55. https://qt4cg.org/dashboard/#pr-1783
> 56. https://qt4cg.org/dashboard/#pr-1778
> 57. https://qt4cg.org/dashboard/#pr-1763
> 58. https://qt4cg.org/dashboard/#pr-1740
> 59. https://qt4cg.org/dashboard/#pr-1735
> 60. https://qt4cg.org/dashboard/#pr-1769
> 61. https://qt4cg.org/dashboard/#pr-1772
> 62. https://qt4cg.org/dashboard/#pr-1773
> 63. https://qt4cg.org/dashboard/#pr-1782
> 64. https://qt4cg.org/dashboard/#pr-1784
> 65. https://github.com/qt4cg/qtspecs/issues/1537
> 66. https://github.com/qt4cg/qtspecs/issues/1584
> 67. https://github.com/qt4cg/qtspecs/issues/1631
> 68. https://github.com/qt4cg/qtspecs/issues/1698
> 69. https://github.com/qt4cg/qtspecs/issues/1724
> 70. https://github.com/qt4cg/qtspecs/issues/1742
> 71. https://github.com/qt4cg/qtspecs/issues/1777
>
> Be seeing you,
> norm
>
> --
> Norm Tovey-Walsh
> Saxonica
>
>
Received on Tuesday, 11 February 2025 19:10:05 UTC