Re: QT4CG Agenda 044, 5 September 2023

Hello,

Here are the minutes. GitHub seems to be having some issues at the
moment (PRs won’t merge and the build that publishes the minutes fell
over with some weird internal error). This URI will work when GitHub is
back on its feet and the job runs successfully:

  https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2023/09-05.html

In the meantime, here’s the text version:

QT4 CG Meeting 044 Minutes 2023-09-05

Table of Contents

     * [1]Draft Minutes
     * [2]Summary of new and continuing actions [0/5]
     * [3]1. Administrivia
          + [4]1.1. Roll call [10/11]
          + [5]1.2. Accept the agenda
               o [6]1.2.1. Status so far...
          + [7]1.3. Approve minutes of the previous meeting
          + [8]1.4. Next meeting
          + [9]1.5. Review of open action items [1/8]
     * [10]2. Technical Agenda
          + [11]2.1. Review of open PRs
          + [12]2.2. Review of open issues
          + [13]2.3. Broader planning
     * [14]3. Any other business?
     * [15]4. Adjourned

   [16]Agenda index / [17]QT4CG.org / [18]Dashboard / [19]GH Issues /
   [20]GH Pull Requests

Draft Minutes

Summary of new and continuing actions [0/5]

     * [ ] QT4CG-002-10: BTW to coordinate some ideas about improving
       diversity in the group
     * [ ] QT4CG-026-01: MK to write a summary paper that outlines the
       decisions we need to make on "value sequences"
          + This is related to PR #368: Issue 129 - Context item
            generalized to context value and subsequent discussion.
     * [ ] QT4CG-029-07: NW to open the next discussion of #397 with a
       demo from DN See PR [21]#449
     * [ ] QT4CG-039-01: NW to schedule discussion of issue [22]#52, Allow
       record(*) based RecordTests
     * [ ] QT4CG-042-01: NW to use sequences instead of arrays in
       parse-uri output.
     * [ ] QT4CG-042-02: NW to make the query into a simple map with
       repeated values.
     * [ ] QT4CG-042-03: NW to consider revisions to query parses.

1. Administrivia

1.1. Roll call [10/11]

   Regrets: SF for 5 and 12 September.
     * [X] Reece Dunn (RD)
     * [ ] Sasha Firsov (SF)
     * [X] Christian Gr¸n (CG)
     * [X] Joel Kalvesmaki (JK)
     * [X] Michael Kay (MK)
     * [X] John Lumley (JL)
     * [X] Dimitre Novatchev (DN)
     * [X] Ed Porter (EP)
     * [X] C. M. Sperberg-McQueen (MSM) [x:15-]
     * [X] Norm Tovey-Walsh (NW). Scribe. Chair.
     * [X] benibela

1.2. Accept the agenda

   Proposal: Accept [23]the agenda.

   Accepted.

1.2.1. Status so far...

   issues-open-2023-09-05.png

   Figure 1: "Burn down" chart on open issues

   issues-by-spec-2023-09-05.png

   Figure 2: Open issues by specification

   issues-by-type-2023-09-05.png

   Figure 3: Open issues by type

1.3. Approve minutes of the previous meeting

   Proposal: Accept [24]the minutes of the previous meeting.

   Accepted.

1.4. Next meeting

   The next meeting [25]is scheduled for Tuesday, 12 September 2023.

   Regrets from JL, SF. Possible regrets from DN.
     * NW: We're overdue for an XSLT focused meeting.

1.5. Review of open action items [1/8]

     * [ ] QT4CG-002-10: BTW to coordinate some ideas about improving
       diversity in the group
     * [X] QT4CG-016-08: RD to clarify how namespace comparisons are
       performed.
     * [ ] QT4CG-026-01: MK to write a summary paper that outlines the
       decisions we need to make on "value sequences"
          + This is related to PR #368: Issue 129 - Context item
            generalized to context value and subsequent discussion.
          + CG: I've updated 129, I could go through it if we put it on
            the agenda
     * [ ] QT4CG-029-07: NW to open the next discussion of #397 with a
       demo from DN See PR [26]#449
     * [ ] QT4CG-039-01: NW to schedule discussion of issue [27]#52, Allow
       record(*) based RecordTests
     * [ ] QT4CG-042-01: NW to use sequences instead of arrays in
       parse-uri output.
     * [ ] QT4CG-042-02: NW to make the query into a simple map with
       repeated values.
     * [ ] QT4CG-042-03: NW to consider revisions to query parses.

2. Technical Agenda

2.1. Review of open PRs

   Review of open PRs:
     * PR [28]#664: 663 xsl:original keywords
          + MK: I just revised this one editorially. It's a 1 paragraph
            change.
          + Proposal: merge it.
               o Accepted.
     * PR [29]#659: 647: schema location hints
          + MK: A fairly substantial change, needs careful review.
               o ... There are technical changes needed
     * PR [30]#650: 649: fix an xsl:fallback problem
          + MK: Essentially a bug fix. Someone discovered that if you
            write an xsl:fallback instruction with a select attribute, the
            attribute is ignored.
               o ... The only slightly controversial thing is a note about
                 XSLT 3.0
          + MSM: If I have something in version N+1 and I'm using an N-1
            processor, and I have something in that falls back to N, with
            another fallback to N-1.
          + MK: Yes, you can do that by explicitly attaching version
            attributes everywhere.
          + Proposal to leave this a week and then merge it next week.
     * PR [31]#640: 601: fn:all -> fn:every?
          + CG: This is what we discussed at the end of July. This renames
            a function.
          + Proposal: merge it.
               o Accepted.
     * PR [32]#635: 451: Schema compatibility
          + MK: This belongs with 647 and requires discussion. This has to
            do with how validated documents are passed between stylesheets
            that import different schemas.
     * PR [33]#633: Edits ch. 4.1 through 4.15
          + Proposal: merge it.
               o Accepted.
     * PR [34]#631: 600: fn:decode-from-uri
          + CG: This is a proposal for the opposite of encode-for-uri.
          + MK: Some of my comments were wrong; I think CG has done the
            right things.
          + CG: I mostly described what Java and perhaps Python do.
          + Proposal to leave this a week and then merge it next week.
     * PR [35]#623: 93: sort descending
          + MK: Significant new functionality for the fn:sort function.
          + Proposal to leave this a week and then merge it next week.
     * PR [36]#619: XDM ch. 6 minor edits
          + Proposal: merge it.
               o Accepted.
     * PR [37]#599: 90: Simplified stylesheets with no xsl:version
          + MK: They're a bit under used. This tries to make it a slightly
            nicer idea. If you eliminate the need to have a version
            attribute, then you can also avoid the namespace declaration.
          + Proposal to leave this a week and then merge it next week.
     * PR [38]#538: Attempt to allow xs:string to be 'promoted to'
       xs:anyURI
          + Leave for the future
     * PR [39]#529: 528: revision of json(), and renaming to xdm-to-json()
          + Leave for the future
     * PR [40]#470: 369 add fixed-prefixes attribute in XSLT
          + Leave for the future
     * PR [41]#412: 409, QT4CG-027-01: xsl:next-match
          + MK: Turned out to be a lot more difficult than I expected.
            We've expanded what can match, for example record types, which
            don't form a strict hierarchy. This makes it far from obvious
            what the "next match" should. be.
     * PR [42]#368: 129: Context item generalized to context value
          + Leave for the future

2.2. Review of open issues

   Taking a "strike while the iron is hot" approach, are there any issues
   currently being actively discussed in email or comments that would
   benefit from meeting time?
     * JK: Traversal of arrays and maps in a convenient fashion is high
       priority
     * MK: There's a bundle of issues in that area
     * NW: I'll make that bundle of issues a topic for another meeting.
     * MK: What it needs to make that discussion successful is a
       structured discussion of the issue.
     * JK: I can try to facilitate that conversation.
     * NW: Fab!

   What about the fold-right question, issue #670?
     * MK: I think that needs distilation to a few specific items that
       need to be added.
     * DN: I would say that I disagree. It was specifically mentioned that
       we need short-circuiting and generators.
          + ... The whole thing depends on having a proposal for
            generators.
          + ... There are many comments, but I think still I'm right about
            the core of the proposal.
     * CG: DN, I was just asking. I remember that you said this proposal
       could show how the problems could be solved with XPath. Is it just
       something that we should think about?
     * DN: I think we need a separate proposal for generators. Right now
       we have an example, but not a specification.
     * RD: Are the issues with fold-right down to the implementation? In
       other words, is it possible to create an implementation that
       implements fold-right and other functions like that which make use
       of things like generators and lazy-evaluation?
          + ... My understanding was that that would be the case.
     * DN: I think one could try to add additional arguments to
       fold-right, but this would be a very different function.
     * RD: I'm not talking about adding things, as it is currently defined
       is it possible to implement generator-based or lazy implementations
       of them.
     * DN: The short answer is "no". It doesn't accept a function that
       generates the input one-by-one.
     * RD: There's language in implementation because in languages that
       have tail recursion, you don't necessarily need to say this is a
       tail recursive function. The implementation can work that out and
       optimize it not to use recursion at all.
          + ... If we say "this is how we support generators" or something
            like that, it becomes something that the user has to know
            about. But if it's possible for the implementation to note
            that an array can be adapted to a sequence generator, then the
            performance benefits are transparent to the user.

   Some further discussion about implementation details and whether or not
   users have to know about generators.
     * DN: Generator functions in C# need a lot of compiler support. I
       want to avoid that.
     * CG: Lots of things in this issue are really implementation details.
     * DN: I think the first few comments make the problem clear.
     * RD: An interesting use case for generators would be the random
       generator.
     * CG: Some time ago I added a discussion label. I've assigned it to
       all issues that are too broad to end up in a proposal. Whenever you
       think something is more concrete start a new issue.

2.3. Broader planning

     * NW: This section of the agenda is about having a conversation about
       when we can finish.
     * RD: Rather than specific closing off issues, would it make sense to
       have a 4.0 and a future milestone.
     * CG: I noticed that there are some things in the specification that
       haven't been finalized. We don't know which features are final. We
       should discuss everything that has been added to the specification.
     * MK: I've tried to add issues for all those features and to tag them
       as "needs comfirmation".

   Chairs will make sure the "requires confirmation" issues are on an
   agenda real soon now.
     * RD: We've also had previous discussion on record tests.
     * MK: I think we almost got to the end of record tests, but we didn't
       quite finish. There's a high degree of consensus.

   Anything else for this item?
     * CG: We could prioritize the issue with "proposed 4.0" label.
     * NW: Yes, good idea.
     * MK: I think we should try to keep the doors open for a little bit
       longer. Certainly until the end of the year and then perhaps start
       the new year with a concerted attempt to wrap things up.
     * NW: Also a good idea! The chairs will return to the "broader
       planning" topic in January.

3. Any other business?

   None heard.

4. Adjourned

References

   1. http://localhost:8132/meeting/minutes/2023/09-05.html#minutes
   2. http://localhost:8132/meeting/minutes/2023/09-05.html#new-actions
   3. http://localhost:8132/meeting/minutes/2023/09-05.html#administrivia
   4. http://localhost:8132/meeting/minutes/2023/09-05.html#roll-call
   5. http://localhost:8132/meeting/minutes/2023/09-05.html#agenda
   6. http://localhost:8132/meeting/minutes/2023/09-05.html#so-far
   7. http://localhost:8132/meeting/minutes/2023/09-05.html#approve-minutes
   8. http://localhost:8132/meeting/minutes/2023/09-05.html#next-meeting
   9. http://localhost:8132/meeting/minutes/2023/09-05.html#open-actions
  10. http://localhost:8132/meeting/minutes/2023/09-05.html#technical-agenda
  11. http://localhost:8132/meeting/minutes/2023/09-05.html#open-prs
  12. http://localhost:8132/meeting/minutes/2023/09-05.html#open-issues
  13. http://localhost:8132/meeting/minutes/2023/09-05.html#broader-planning
  14. http://localhost:8132/meeting/minutes/2023/09-05.html#any-other-business
  15. http://localhost:8132/meeting/minutes/2023/09-05.html#adjourned
  16. http://localhost:8132/meeting/minutes/
  17. https://qt4cg.org/
  18. https://qt4cg.org/dashboard
  19. https://github.com/qt4cg/qtspecs/issues
  20. https://github.com/qt4cg/qtspecs/pulls
  21. https://qt4cg.org/dashboard/#pr-449
  22. https://github.com/qt4cg/qtspecs/issues/52
  23. http://localhost:8132/meeting/agenda/2023/09-05.html
  24. http://localhost:8132/meeting/minutes/2023/07-25.html
  25. http://localhost:8132/meeting/agenda/2023/09-12.html
  26. https://qt4cg.org/dashboard/#pr-449
  27. https://github.com/qt4cg/qtspecs/issues/52
  28. https://github.com/qt4cg/qtspecs/pull/664
  29. https://github.com/qt4cg/qtspecs/pull/659
  30. https://github.com/qt4cg/qtspecs/pull/650
  31. https://github.com/qt4cg/qtspecs/pull/640
  32. https://github.com/qt4cg/qtspecs/pull/635
  33. https://github.com/qt4cg/qtspecs/pull/633
  34. https://github.com/qt4cg/qtspecs/pull/631
  35. https://github.com/qt4cg/qtspecs/pull/623
  36. https://github.com/qt4cg/qtspecs/pull/619
  37. https://github.com/qt4cg/qtspecs/pull/599
  38. https://github.com/qt4cg/qtspecs/pull/538
  39. https://github.com/qt4cg/qtspecs/pull/529
  40. https://github.com/qt4cg/qtspecs/pull/470
  41. https://github.com/qt4cg/qtspecs/pull/412
  42. https://github.com/qt4cg/qtspecs/pull/368

                                        Be seeing you,
                                          norm

--
Norm Tovey-Walsh
Saxonica

Received on Tuesday, 5 September 2023 16:39:06 UTC