- From: Norman Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com>
- Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2016 11:33:01 -0600
- To: public-xml-processing-model-wg@w3.org
- Message-ID: <871t7zidgy.fsf@nwalsh.com>
See https://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2016/02/24-minutes
[1]W3C
- DRAFT -
XML Processing Model WG
Meeting 288, 24 Feb 2016
See also: [2]IRC log
Attendees
Present
Norm, Jim, Murray, Henry, Alex
Regrets
Chair
Norm
Scribe
Norm
Contents
* [3]Topics
1. [4]Accept this agenda?
2. [5]Accept minutes from the previous meeting?
3. [6]Next meeting, 2 Mar 2016
4. [7]Reports from the face-to-face
5. [8]Community group status/update
6. [9]Autumn workshop
7. [10]Update the repo
8. [11]Demo of Jim's efforts
9. [12]Data literals
10. [13]Any other business?
* [14]Summary of Action Items
* [15]Summary of Resolutions
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Accept this agenda?
-> [16]http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2016/02/24-agenda
Accepted.
Accept minutes from the previous meeting?
-> [17]http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2016/02/10-minutes
-> [18]http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2016/02/11-minutes
Jim: Liam minuted the public meeting and we don't have those notes yet.
Alex: Aren't they in the IRC log?
... I don't have the diagram that one of the participants drew.
Jim: I think Liam has it.
Alex: Ok, we need a copy of that.
Jim: Ok, those are the minutes I was thinking of.
Norm: So approve?
Jim: Ok.
Accepted.
Next meeting, 2 Mar 2016
No regrets heard
Reports from the face-to-face
Norm: Anyone have stories to tell not in the minutes?
None heard
Community group status/update
Jim: It's good to get people into a community (with a small "c") and I
wanted to help as much as I can.
... There's a little admin involved. At XML Prague, Nic and Ari said
they'd be willing to co-chair. We discussed
... what items the community group could do. We came up with three:
shepherding the XML syntax, because there are
... folks interested in doing active work there. I've had meetings with
some of these folks. There's going to be an announcement
... that we want to have coincide with the official announcement.
... We're working on a transform for that.
... I also thought that a new name might be a good idea; Nic is going to
setup an issue tracker.
... They seem like a really good fit.
... I'm also coordinating to meet with them a few times this year.
Norm: I propose that we plan to invite them to attend this call
periodically to give feedback.
<ht> +1
Jim: I'm hoping to get things aligned between what we could use help on
and what their agendas are. We'll take it step-by-step.
... I'll give an update next time.
Murray: There is a liason process within W3C, right? They can communicate
with us, right?
Norm: Yes.
Autumn workshop
Jim: The timing didn't work for what we initially discussed at XML Prague.
All the efforts are now poured into doing an XProc workshop in Amsterdam
at CWI with Steven Pemberton.
... No idea what the attendance will be, but I think we can guarantee
enough to justify the meeting.
... Should I keep working on that.
Norm: YES PLEASE
... I still think a more general "pipeline" or "data flow" workshop is a
great idea, maybe for spring of 2017.
Jim: I'll work on getting some cross-pollination going for that
conference.
Murray: It occurs to me that we could call it "pipefitters" or "XML
pipefitters"
Henry: What about a face-to-face at Murray's in the summer?
Norm: Henry, we were waiting on dates from you. :-)
Henry: What would work for me would be early the week of 20 June.
Norm: Ok, Murray does that work for you?
Murray: It seems plausible. Let me double check.
Jim: I can't commit.
Alex: I don't know either; summer is difficult.
Update the repo
Norm: I'd like to clear the decks in the spec repo.
Henry: I think moving it all to an "archive" directory or something would
be fine.
Murray: How about renaming it
Norm: Well, duh. Yes, thank you, that's a good idea.
Murray: Going back to the community group topic for a moment, what
"xflowml" or "dataflowml"?
<alexmilowski> The letter ‘X’ shall not be used … ;)
<alexmilowski> Don’t do a “s/X/J/g” in IRC ...
Murray: I like "flowml" because I like the way the "ml" sounds.
<ht> Murray: As in "Flow 'em all"
<alexmilowski> Not a joke to some …
Norm: I don't hear anyone objecting to my jiggering with the spec repos,
so Imma gonna.
Approved.
Demo of Jim's efforts
Jim: It's not anywhere public at the moment, but I'll be making it
available at some point when it's a little more mature.
<ht> Not a syntax designed for hand-authoring -- yes
<alexmilowski> Annotations!
Jim's demo is a thing of beauty.
Murray: Thanks, Jim, that's very cool.
Data literals
->
[19]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-processing-model-wg/2016Feb/0021.html
Norm: What about AVTs?
Alex: AVTs are an artifact of XML. I don't think we need them, we should
go for simple.
... We should have a JSON templating step and an XML templating step and a
everything else templating step.
... Pick your poison. Get a step that provides it.
... Mustache templates, for example.
Norm: Ok, I guess we can run with that for a while.
Henry: The problem I have is that it feels like the right decomposition is
that we ought to have tools for constructing string literals with
templating.
... But it doesn't do the right thing because the templating step needs to
know about the data model.
... If it were XProc1, it would be fine, you could build the string and
parse it.
<liam> [I thought I sent the log from te public meeting to the public
list, sorry!]
Henry: But that doesn't work in XProc2 because variables can have
structure.
... You can't use XML with the JSON templating, or JSON with the XML
templating
Alex: There's a story that's been well worked out that given some set of
values in XQuery there's a template you can construct in XML and only XML
... Everything else in the universe is all over the planet.
... On the left hand side is random syntax that the step expects.
<liam> [ unedited log from publc meeting:
[20]https://www.w3.org/2016/02/11-xproc-irc -- I'll try & tidy it up
today, modulo the raging ice storm outside taking away our electricity ]
[ Check my minutes of 11 Feb, I might have found it; Jim was initially
confued ]
<liam> [ ok ]
Henry: There's no step here, there's no JSON specific step.
Alex: What I'm saying is that templating is out of scope.
Henry: I'm not disagreeing with you, I just don't understand your
proposal.
Alex: What I'm saying is that if we have a convenient syntax for literals,
we can stop there.
Norm attempts to explain: the data literal syntax is just about string
literals.
data "application/json" '{"fruit": "orange"}' -> x:mustache($options) >>
$output
Henry: There's nothing in the data literal that looks like any kind of
JSON templating syntax.
Alex: The step has an expected media type and it gets what it gets, it
just doesn't matter.
data "application/json" '{"fruit": "orange"}' ->
x:change-oranges-to-apples($options) >> $output
Henry: I understand how the language works, but I don't understand how
that can work for templating json.
Norm: I'm confused.
Henry: I remain to be convinced that the input to a JSON templating step
is actual valid JSON. And if it takes strings, that works. But I'm
skeptical that something that takes application/json as input can be a
flexible JSON templating solution.
<alexmilowski> [21]https://mustache.github.io/mustache.5.html
Norm: Alas, we're out of time.
Alex: That link is just a text templating thing. It takes text and outputs
text.
Any other business?
None heard. Adjourned.
Summary of Action Items
Summary of Resolutions
[End of minutes]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Minutes formatted by David Booth's [22]scribe.perl version 1.144 ([23]CVS
log)
$Date: 2016/02/26 17:31:31 $
References
1. http://www.w3.org/
2. http://www.w3.org/2016/02/24-xproc-irc
3. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2016/02/24-minutes#agenda
4. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2016/02/24-minutes#item01
5. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2016/02/24-minutes#item02
6. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2016/02/24-minutes#item03
7. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2016/02/24-minutes#item04
8. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2016/02/24-minutes#item05
9. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2016/02/24-minutes#item06
10. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2016/02/24-minutes#item07
11. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2016/02/24-minutes#item08
12. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2016/02/24-minutes#item09
13. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2016/02/24-minutes#item10
14. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2016/02/24-minutes#ActionSummary
15. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2016/02/24-minutes#ResolutionSummary
16. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2016/02/24-agenda
17. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2016/02/10-minutes
18. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2016/02/11-minutes
19. https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-processing-model-wg/2016Feb/0021.html
20. https://www.w3.org/2016/02/11-xproc-irc
21. https://mustache.github.io/mustache.5.html
22. http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
23. http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/
Received on Friday, 26 February 2016 17:33:30 UTC