XProc Minutes 27 Apr 2016

See https://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2016/04/27-minutes

[1]W3C

                                - DRAFT -

                         XML Processing Model WG

Meeting 294, 27 Apr 2016

   [2]Agenda

   See also: [3]IRC log

Attendees

   Present
           Norm, Henry, Jim, Alex, Murray

   Regrets

   Chair
           Norm

   Scribe
           Norm

Contents

     * [4]Topics

         1. [5]Accept this agenda?
         2. [6]Accept minutes from the previous meeting?
         3. [7]Next meeting, 10 Aug 2016
         4. [8]Review of open action items
         5. [9]Are we getting anywhere?
         6. [10]Any other business?

     * [11]Summary of Action Items
     * [12]Summary of Resolutions

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  Accept this agenda?

   -> [13]http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2016/04/27-agenda

   Accepted.

  Accept minutes from the previous meeting?

   -> [14]http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2016/04/20-minutes

   Accepted.

  Next meeting, 10 Aug 2016

   After some discussion, see below, the WG decided to take the summer off.

  Review of open action items

   Alex: No progress.

   <ht> Alex, once again you are very quiet. . .

  Are we getting anywhere?

   Norm: Is this worth continuing?
   ... I don't know how to motivate the group to make a decision to quit or
   engage.

   Henry: I remain motivated to take the semantics work I started in Prague
   and complete that.
   ... I think we could reach consensus on that faster than on the concrete
   syntax.

   Jim: There are two threads here: the WG is small and constrained by time.
   We've put in a lot of effort up to this point.
   ... From my point of view, I'd rather look at the second issue: we're
   trying to get to a starting point. We have a lot of inter-related
   ... topics pushing and pulling without coming to resolution. Talking once
   a week can't crack this nut. We could spawn off a few email
   ... threads but each thread tends to peter out. I would like to get some
   output, be it a note or an actual spec. How to get there
   ... isn't going to happen with email conversation. It'd require a couple
   of sessions at a very high sampling rate.
   ... What's being proposed doesn't seem vastly different. There are just
   different communication styles.
   ... If we did three days in a row with a couple of hour sprints, that
   might work better.
   ... Of course it might not work, but it's worth a try.

   Alex: I think we're moving in vastly different directions. We have
   competing concerns and no community involvement.
   ... Even though we all give each other good ideas and good feedback, I
   think we're wasting our time.
   ... We can do cool stuff, but we don't need a WG for that.
   ... The success of XProc 1 has been underwhelming and where do we go from
   there.
   ... What I want to do with data flow programming are not the people using
   XProc 1.

   Norm: I propose we give up, close the WG, do our own thing for 6-12
   months, and if we get to a place where we think we have something to
   standardize and we think the W3C is the place to do it, we come back then.

   Murray: I don't know what happened last week, but I'm surprised by what
   just happened.
   ... All of a sudden after years and months of slow and tedious progress,
   something jumped out. And it looked interesting.
   ... And we were all energized and talking about it and today you're saying
   walk away.
   ... Can you summarize what happened?

   Norm: Alex made some apt observations about the state of the world: no one
   cares.

   Murray: Okay.

   Henry: I object. Closing the WG is more trouble than its worth. We can
   just stop meeting for a while and see who notices.
   ... Let's take the summer off.

   Norm: Ok, we have a CWI workshop scheduled for September in Amsterdam.

   Henry: Six weeks before that workshop, let's have a "call for papers": we
   need to hear arguments for ways forward for a flow language +/- a focus on
   XML at the W3C.

   Norm: Ok. I propose that our next meeting is 10 August.

   Murray: What happens to the work we've done?

   Henry: I hope Alex and Norm present what they've done.

   Alex: We can use the data flow monthly call as a venue to get together and
   chat.

  Any other business?

   None heard.

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

   [End of minutes]

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    Minutes formatted by David Booth's [15]scribe.perl version 1.144 ([16]CVS
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    $Date: 2016/04/27 17:42:30 $

References

   1. http://www.w3.org/
   2. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2016/04/27-agenda
   3. http://www.w3.org/2016/04/27-xproc-irc
   4. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2016/04/27-minutes.html#agenda
   5. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2016/04/27-minutes.html#item01
   6. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2016/04/27-minutes.html#item02
   7. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2016/04/27-minutes.html#item03
   8. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2016/04/27-minutes.html#item04
   9. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2016/04/27-minutes.html#item05
  10. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2016/04/27-minutes.html#item06
  11. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2016/04/27-minutes.html#ActionSummary
  12. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2016/04/27-minutes.html#ResolutionSummary
  13. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2016/04/27-agenda
  14. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2016/04/20-minutes
  15. http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
  16. http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/