- From: Norman Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com>
- Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2015 08:40:33 -0800
- To: public-xml-processing-model-wg@w3.org
- Message-ID: <87d26qr1by.fsf@nwalsh.com>
See http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2015/01/07-minutes
[1]W3C
- DRAFT -
XML Processing Model WG
Meeting 262, 07 Jan 2015
[2]Agenda
See also: [3]IRC log
Attendees
Present
Norm, Jim, Henry, Alex, Loren
Regrets
Chair
Norm
Scribe
Norm
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]Accept this agenda?
2. [6]Accept minutes from the previous meeting?
3. [7]Next meeting
4. [8]Review of open action items
5. [9]Reviewing binary support
6. [10]Any other business?
* [11]Summary of Action Items
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Accept this agenda?
-> [12]http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2015/01/07-agenda
Accepted.
Accept minutes from the previous meeting?
-> [13]http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2014/12/10-minutes
Accepted.
Next meeting
Proposed: 14 January 2015
No regrets heard.
Review of open action items
Alex reports no progress on his items.
Jim reports no progress on his items.
Reviewing binary support
Norm reviews the idea of having "XML stub documents" to represent non-XML
documents in the pipeline.
Jim: What about the base URI?
<alexmilowski> [14]http://www.w3.org/TR/xpath-datamodel/#DocumentNode
Norm: It is what it is.
Alex: I think maybe we could use a stub "XDM Document" to represent
binaries.
... If you access the children you get a base64 encoded representation or
a JSON blob or some such.
... That would leave open the possibility of unification later; you'd
still have the concept of a document node but you'd have other kinds of
children.
... JSON could be represented with semi-structured data.
... But that's the future, all we want today is properties, right?
Norm: Yes.
Jim: Is this possibly a little bit too much sausage making. From a
first-principles point of view, we're allowing non-XML documents to flow.
... From a pipeline author's point of view, they're just going to get a
binary document.
... To me the simplest thing is a binary flowing through.
<alexmilowski> What is "this proposal" ?
Jim: Are we saying that we're passing references around? This is more
implementation level detail.
Alex: I'm not sure what you mean. The proposal Norm outlined is a
variation of something I proposed a long time ago that you can find in the
archives.
... What I'm saying today on the call is that we can do it with XDM
document nodes.
... I think there's room in the current XDM to create some kind of
Document node that has "on demand" content.
... Of course, we run the risk that someone will say we have to fix these
things in the XDM.
... I'd like it to be possible for vendors to use extensions to the XDM to
represent things like JSON if they wanted to.
Norm waffles a bit about how implementors will react to this.
<ht> Not clear to me why the string value isn't always empty
Alex: What about plain text?
Norm: I think those can just be Document nodes with a single Text node
child. That's what XSLT does.
Alex: There are two issues here: there's a story about random media types
that you have and how they map into a Document node and then there's a
possibly not-normative description of what you do with text/plain.
Henry: I'm on a fine red line here. These are not XML documents, these are
not XDM nodes, there is no string content, it's always empty. There's an
accessor to get at the content.
... It's a recipe for confusion if there's any sort of flexibility here at
all.
Some discussion of text/plain documents.
Alex: For semi-structured data like JSON, I want it to be possible for
implementors to extend the XDM in ways to access JSON.
Norm gives a little background about extending the XDM to JSON.
Henry: Fine, we can do that in XProc 2.1. I think we need a complete and
straightforward story about what these documents contain.
... Extending the XDM is a new version of the spec.
Alex: I understand the concerns, we can make an issue about that.
Jim: To help us with the story, I think we're jumping around a bit in use
cases. Would it be good to create a set of pipelines that demonstrate some
of these use cases.
... how far do we think this is going to go.
... Are we going to run p:viewport over binary documents?
Alex: I think the simplest use case is just the ability to get the base
URI.
Norm: No, p:viewport only operates on XML, lots of steps only process XML.
Some discussion of ZIP file manipulation.
Some discussion of filtering p:for-each based on media type.
Jim: There's a JSON use case, packaged up stuff (EPUB, zips), image
processing use case.
... Anything else?
<scribe> ACTION: A-262-01 Jim to attempt to describe these use cases,
write demonstration pipelines. [recorded in
[15]http://www.w3.org/2015/01/07-xproc-minutes.html#action01]
Alex: I think we should be explicit about the text/plain case.
Norm: I think the next step is to consider what violence it does to the
spec to attempt to describe binaries as having stub XDM Document nodes.
Any other business?
<jfuller> xml prague
<jfuller> [16]http://www.xmlprague.cz/sessions2015/
Alex: I think we should have some working pipelines that show off AVTs and
stuff.
... Maybe you (Norm) can send an email outlining what you think we should
cover.
Adjourned.
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: A-262-01 Jim to attempt to describe these use cases, write
demonstration pipelines. [recorded in
[17]http://www.w3.org/2015/01/07-xproc-minutes.html#action01]
[End of minutes]
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Minutes formatted by David Booth's [18]scribe.perl version 1.140 ([19]CVS
log)
$Date: 2015-01-07 16:36:29 $
References
1. http://www.w3.org/
2. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2015/01/07-agenda
3. http://www.w3.org/2015/01/07-xproc-irc
4. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2015/01/07-minutes#agenda
5. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2015/01/07-minutes#item01
6. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2015/01/07-minutes#item02
7. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2015/01/07-minutes#item03
8. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2015/01/07-minutes#item04
9. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2015/01/07-minutes#item05
10. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2015/01/07-minutes#item06
11. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2015/01/07-minutes#ActionSummary
12. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2015/01/07-agenda
13. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2014/12/10-minutes
14. http://www.w3.org/TR/xpath-datamodel/#DocumentNode
15. http://www.w3.org/2015/01/07-xproc-minutes.html#action01]
16. http://www.xmlprague.cz/sessions2015/
17. http://www.w3.org/2015/01/07-xproc-minutes.html#action01
18. http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
19. http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/
Received on Wednesday, 7 January 2015 16:41:09 UTC