- From: Norman Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com>
- Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 09:50:22 -0400
- To: public-xml-processing-model-wg@w3.org
- Message-ID: <m2k4cor081.fsf@nwalsh.com>
See http://www.w3.org//XProc/2011/06/09-minutes
[1]W3C
- DRAFT -
XML Processing Model WG
Meeting 194, 09 Jun 2011
[2]Agenda
See also: [3]IRC log
Attendees
Present
Norm, Alex, Vojtech, Paul, Henry, Murray
Regrets
Mohamed
Chair
Norm
Scribe
Norm
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]Accept this agenda?
2. [6]Accept minutes from the previous meeting?
3. [7]Next meeting: telcon, 16 June 2011?
4. [8]*output* port in p:catch
5. [9]Review of state of processor profiles work
6. [10]Transclusion in HTML5
7. [11]Any other business?
* [12]Summary of Action Items
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Accept this agenda?
-> [13]http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2011/06/09-agenda
Accepted
Accept minutes from the previous meeting?
-> [14]http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2011/05/05-minutes
Accepted.
Next meeting: telcon, 16 June 2011?
No regrets heard.
*output* port in p:catch
Vojtech: It's like current in for-each and viewport. It's the same type of
thing.
Norm: I think you're right.
... I think for p:catch, we should just remove the word "output" which I
think was Mohamed's suggestion.
Vojtech: It occurs in two places.
Proposal: Remove "output" from the discussion of the error port where it's
an input not an output
Accepted.
<scribe> ACTION: Norm to write an erratum for the incorrect description of
"error" as an output port in p:catch [recorded in
[15]http://www.w3.org/2011/06/09-xproc-minutes.html#action01]
Review of state of processor profiles work
Henry: I've made no progress yet, hope to have something ready for next
week.
Norm: Alex looked at xml:id and XInclude
->
[16]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-processing-model-wg/2011Jun/0007.html
Alex; Yes. I was able to get xml:id working quite well. It relies on DOM
mutation events which work successfully in browsers where its supported.
scribe: Unfortunately, webkit browsers don't support the mutation events
API.
... That's related to XInclude because it talks about maintaining
references.
... XInclude itself also works quite well, with the exception that the
base URI property isn't used properly in some browsers. But that's just a
bug.
... If you programmatically change the base URI by adding/changing the
xml:base attribute, that has no effect in some browsers. But it does work
in Firefox.
... Long story short: you can implement it in JavaScript. But if you have
an implementation of this, then how does it get invoked?
... In some browsers, if you put XHTML script tags in, those scripts run.
But in other browsers, e.g. IE9, then they don't. So there's no universal
way to start the process.
... It might be possible to do this with extensions, but that's not
standard browser behavior.
->
[17]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-processing-model-wg/2011Jun/0009.html
Alex: Is there anything to note about this in the spec? It should be said
that xml:base is supposed to change the base URI.
Norm: Is it worth adding to the spec?
<alexmilowski> [18]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=12924
Alex: The browsers do support xml:base, and HTML5 describes the right
behavior, but it's not clear what happens when you programmatically change
the base URI.
... You actually have to find and re-resolve the URIs on the elements.
Murray: Are you suggesting that if you didn't rely on base URIs, that is
if you provide the fully qualified URIs, that generally the browsers do
what they need to do except for recursive XIncludes?
Alex: No. I'm saying that Firefox does the right thing. The other browsers
I tested don't do the right thing. But that's a bug and I've filed them.
... And the HTML5 spec says that what Firefox is doing is the right thing.
... What's not supported is programmatically changing the base URI to
effect descendent attributes. For example, after an img src has been
resolved, changing the base URI on an ancestor won't cause the img src to
be recomputed.
Murray: Are there utilities for doing base URI resolution? Like a unix
filter that will expand URIs and give you back the fully qualified URIs?
Alex: You could *write* one. There isn't a standard API in the browser to
do this.
Norm: XProc has a step to do this.
Alex: Because we have the base URI property, we can control it. What the
host language does is up to them and should be made clear.
... We should make it clear that the right semantic is that you resolve
the URI against the base URI of the element and xml:base controls that.
... There's no magic.
... That's pretty much what the HTML5 spec says.
Further discussion of the behavior of the base URI
Some discussion of what it means, or should mean, to change the xml:base
value after a document is ... yeah, is what? parsed? rendered?
<scribe> ACTION: Paul to put the discussion of dynamic changes to xml:base
on the XML Core agenda [recorded in
[19]http://www.w3.org/2011/06/09-xproc-minutes.html#action02]
Transclusion in HTML5
Henry: This was background to Alex's concern in this area. Coming from a
completely different perspective, the members of the team were saying that
they need XInclude functionality without knowing it.
... It was really just as background.
... We'd had this discussion of whether XInclude should be int he profile
we're hoping to sell to the browsers.
Murray: Years ago, I imagined a world where you could use entities to pass
along secret messages. No one would rely in them so they wouldn't show up
in most tools.
... But every now and then someone would read a document that used an
entity to include a secret message.
... That's why I'd like to say something about these things in XProc.
... We need transclusion, we've always needed it. That's why we had
entities in SGML. That's why Ted Nelson coined the term.
Some discussion of the future of entities.
Murray: The case that I care about from GRDDL wasn't handled because we
didnt have XInclude in our profile.
Alex: That's true, that's part of the reason we got here.
Norm: I think we're trying to get there. Can we get the browsers to
support XInclude, can we do it in JavaScript if it's not part of what the
browse does by default?
... These are the sorts of questions we're trying to resolve.
Alex: It's clear that entities are dead in the browser.
More discussion about profiles in general and support for GRDDL
<scribe> ACTION: Norm to include an explicit mention of satisfying the
GRDDL faithful rendition property in the appropriate profile [recorded in
[20]http://www.w3.org/2011/06/09-xproc-minutes.html#action03]
<Vojtech> Implementing GRDDL in XProc:
[21]https://community.emc.com/docs/DOC-10276
Any other business?
None heard.
Some discussion of f2f meetings: TPAC is it for this year
Adjourned.
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: Norm to include an explicit mention of satisfying the GRDDL
faithful rendition property in the appropriate profile [recorded in
[22]http://www.w3.org/2011/06/09-xproc-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: Norm to write an erratum for the incorrect description of
"error" as an output port in p:catch [recorded in
[23]http://www.w3.org/2011/06/09-xproc-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: Paul to put the discussion of dynamic changes to xml:base on
the XML Core agenda [recorded in
[24]http://www.w3.org/2011/06/09-xproc-minutes.html#action02]
[End of minutes]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Minutes formatted by David Booth's [25]scribe.perl version 1.136 ([26]CVS
log)
$Date: 2011/06/14 13:49:36 $
References
1. http://www.w3.org/
2. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2011/06/09-agenda
3. http://www.w3.org/2011/06/09-xproc-irc
4. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2011/06/09-minutes#agenda
5. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2011/06/09-minutes#item01
6. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2011/06/09-minutes#item02
7. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2011/06/09-minutes#item03
8. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2011/06/09-minutes#item04
9. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2011/06/09-minutes#item05
10. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2011/06/09-minutes#item06
11. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2011/06/09-minutes#item07
12. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2011/06/09-minutes#ActionSummary
13. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2011/06/09-agenda
14. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2011/05/05-minutes
15. http://www.w3.org/2011/06/09-xproc-minutes.html#action01
16. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-processing-model-wg/2011Jun/0007.html
17. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-processing-model-wg/2011Jun/0009.html
18. http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=12924
19. http://www.w3.org/2011/06/09-xproc-minutes.html#action02
20. http://www.w3.org/2011/06/09-xproc-minutes.html#action03
21. https://community.emc.com/docs/DOC-10276
22. http://www.w3.org/2011/06/09-xproc-minutes.html#action03
23. http://www.w3.org/2011/06/09-xproc-minutes.html#action01
24. http://www.w3.org/2011/06/09-xproc-minutes.html#action02
25. http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
26. http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/
Received on Tuesday, 14 June 2011 13:50:55 UTC