- From: Norman Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com>
- Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 12:11:15 -0400
- To: public-xml-processing-model-wg@w3.org
- Message-ID: <m239xd8gv0.fsf@nwalsh.com>
See http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2010/05/27-minutes
[1]W3C
- DRAFT -
XML Processing Model WG
Meeting 172, 27 May 2010
[2]Agenda
See also: [3]IRC log
Attendees
Present
Norm, Vojtech, Alex, Henry
Regrets
Paul, Mohamed
Chair
Norm
Scribe
Norm
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]Accept this agenda?
2. [6]Accept minutes from the previous meeting?
3. [7]Next meeting: telcon, 3 June 2010?
4. [8]Administrivia
5. [9]Review comments on XML processor profiles
6. [10]Comment 1, white space handling
7. [11]Comment 2, XSLT media type
8. [12]Comment 3, XML Base processing
9. [13]Any other business?
* [14]Summary of Action Items
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Accept this agenda?
-> [15]http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2010/05/27-agenda
Accepted.
Accept minutes from the previous meeting?
-> [16]http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2010/04/15-minutes
Accepted.
Next meeting: telcon, 3 June 2010?
Paul gives regrets for 3 June
Administrivia
Yay us! XProc is a W3C Recommendation!
Review comments on XML processor profiles
-> [17]http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2010/05/wd-comments/
Comment 1, white space handling
Norm: I'm inclined to agree with David that it would be nice, but I'm not
sure what we can say.
Henry: Yes, there's a constant grumbling about whitespace
... Can a non-validating but doctype reading processor notice what
elements have element only content and ignore whitespace?
Norm: No, I don't think that's conformant.
... From 2.10 in the XML Rec: An XML processor MUST always pass all
characters in a document that are not markup through to the application.
... As far as I can tell, we don't give any processor any leeway to
discard whitespace.
<ht> [18]http://www.w3.org/TR/xml/#sec-white-space
Henry: Is it conformant to the XML specification for a non-validating
processor to report element-content-whitespace? I see nothing that forbids
it.
Alex: So does Saxon throw away element content whitespace?
Norm: Yes, I think it does if you perform DTD validation. But that's not
the XProc default and it only applies to DTD validation.
... I'm not sure what we can do to help.
Henry: A significant goal of our spec is to improve interoperability.
David points out that we don't say.
Norm: Is a minimal processor or a basic processor allowed to do DTD
validation?
Henry: We haven't answered that question.
... Another version of the question is: does the result of processing with
a basic processor include attribute type information?
... Do we really want to sign up to what I said before about interoperable
infoset or are we just setting a lower bound.
... So we could say what properties you will get, but you might get more.
That's a generalization of the question.
Norm: So my intuition is to say that you can't do validation.
Henry: But the XML spec doesn't classify processors tightly enough for us
to do that.
Norm: True, and the whole point about reading external declarations is so
that we get some attribute types.
Vojtech: If we follow Henry's idea of only specifying a lower bound, then
aren't we done?
Some rambling discussion of the issues
Henry: If we want to answer the question, we will have to be much more
careful about what is conveyed. This will require a careful reading of the
XML spec.
... We'll have to take a stand on every optional feature for
non-validating parsers in the XML spec.
... The two we've thought of so far are element content whitespace and
attribute types.
Norm expresses concern about what parser implementors will do if we
attempt to specify specific answers to a bunch of detailed questions.
Alex: What happens with web browsers today?
Alex volunteers to look at what Webkit does
<scribe> ACTION: Alex to investigate what Webkit does [recorded in
[19]http://www.w3.org/2010/05/27-xproc-minutes.html#action01]
<scribe> ACTION: Henry to ask Richard what rxp does [recorded in
[20]http://www.w3.org/2010/05/27-xproc-minutes.html#action02]
Comment 2, XSLT media type
Henry: I read the definition of the element-content-whitespace property in
the Infoset spec as being very carefully worded to allow the possibility
that this property could be set through a process other than validation.
Norm: I'm happy to fix this in our example. Lots of folks use text/xsl,
but application/xslt+xml is what's registered.
Alex: Yes.
Norm: Objections?
None heard.
<scribe> ACTION: Henry to change text/xsl in the spec. [recorded in
[21]http://www.w3.org/2010/05/27-xproc-minutes.html#action03]
Comment 3, XML Base processing
Alex: I'm not sure I understand what the objection is.
Henry: I think all we need to say is that we don't mean anything more than
XML Base, but that by depending on our profiles, you must use XML base.
You could get the same effect by saying you conform to XML Base, but you
don't have to.
Alex: It's a layer cake, I think all we're missing is a refernece to the
infoset.
Henry: I think we made an intentional decision not to put square brackets
around base URI.
... the XML base spec does not refer to the infoset spec. It doesn't put
square brackets around the phrase base URI.
... And that's why we quite consciously didn't introduce a reference to
infoset here.
... I think we just need a terminology section like XML Base that says
what we mean by "base URI"
Norm: That seems reasonable; let's do that and see if it satisfies the
commenter.
<scribe> ACTION: Henry to propose the addition of a terminology section
and reply to the commenter. [recorded in
[22]http://www.w3.org/2010/05/27-xproc-minutes.html#action04]
Any other business?
None heard.
Adjourned.
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: Alex to investigate what Webkit does [recorded in
[23]http://www.w3.org/2010/05/27-xproc-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: Henry to ask Richard what rxp does [recorded in
[24]http://www.w3.org/2010/05/27-xproc-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: Henry to change text/xsl in the spec. [recorded in
[25]http://www.w3.org/2010/05/27-xproc-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: Henry to propose the addition of a terminology section and
reply to the commenter. [recorded in
[26]http://www.w3.org/2010/05/27-xproc-minutes.html#action04]
[End of minutes]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Minutes formatted by David Booth's [27]scribe.perl version 1.135 ([28]CVS
log)
$Date: 2010/05/27 16:10:31 $
References
1. http://www.w3.org/
2. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2010/05/27-agenda
3. http://www.w3.org/2010/05/27-xproc-irc
4. file:///projects/w3c/WWW/XML/XProc/2010/05/27-minutes.html#agenda
5. file:///projects/w3c/WWW/XML/XProc/2010/05/27-minutes.html#item01
6. file:///projects/w3c/WWW/XML/XProc/2010/05/27-minutes.html#item02
7. file:///projects/w3c/WWW/XML/XProc/2010/05/27-minutes.html#item03
8. file:///projects/w3c/WWW/XML/XProc/2010/05/27-minutes.html#item04
9. file:///projects/w3c/WWW/XML/XProc/2010/05/27-minutes.html#item05
10. file:///projects/w3c/WWW/XML/XProc/2010/05/27-minutes.html#item06
11. file:///projects/w3c/WWW/XML/XProc/2010/05/27-minutes.html#item07
12. file:///projects/w3c/WWW/XML/XProc/2010/05/27-minutes.html#item08
13. file:///projects/w3c/WWW/XML/XProc/2010/05/27-minutes.html#item09
14. file:///projects/w3c/WWW/XML/XProc/2010/05/27-minutes.html#ActionSummary
15. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2010/05/27-agenda
16. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2010/04/15-minutes
17. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2010/05/wd-comments/
18. http://www.w3.org/TR/xml/#sec-white-space
19. http://www.w3.org/2010/05/27-xproc-minutes.html#action01
20. http://www.w3.org/2010/05/27-xproc-minutes.html#action02
21. http://www.w3.org/2010/05/27-xproc-minutes.html#action03
22. http://www.w3.org/2010/05/27-xproc-minutes.html#action04
23. http://www.w3.org/2010/05/27-xproc-minutes.html#action01
24. http://www.w3.org/2010/05/27-xproc-minutes.html#action02
25. http://www.w3.org/2010/05/27-xproc-minutes.html#action03
26. http://www.w3.org/2010/05/27-xproc-minutes.html#action04
27. http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
28. http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/
Received on Thursday, 27 May 2010 16:11:51 UTC