- From: Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk>
- Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 13:13:43 +0100
- To: Aaron M Leventhal <aleventh@us.ibm.com>
- Cc: "public-html@w3.org" <public-html@w3.org>, "public-xhtml2@w3.org" <public-xhtml2@w3.org>, w3c-wai-pf@w3.org, "wai-xtech@w3.org" <wai-xtech@w3.org>, "www-tag@w3.org" <www-tag@w3.org>
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Aaron M Leventhal writes: > I think W3C really needs to figure out what is in its DNA at this point. > Contributors that want credibility need to provide implementors with > proposals that will actually work, not theories that will break the web as > it exists today. We're spending too much time debugging proposals asking > us to change what already works. > > While I realize it's not the way people do things around here, I think it > would be leadership by example to just withdraw this proposal because of > the proven bugs. Let's not try to whitewash problems and pretend they > don't matter because they're rare. Admittedly, I have often made mistakes > in my own proposals. I promise to do by best to keep them clear of obvious > problems before recommending them. I will listen to the community and try > to keep the path clear so everyone can keep improving the web through > standards. I understand, I think, the depth of commitment and the extent of the work that has been done already to get ARIA accepted and implemented, and I hear that you are very keen to have the W3C endorse your efforts, publish the spec. and concentrate on promoting uptake. I have never said that the aria: approach was without problems. My efforts throughout this discussion have been directed at accurately identifying the costs of _both_ approaches, so that a thoughtful and well-informed decision can be made based on the agreed facts. You have identified a problem that I missed, and that's a good thing, because it adds to the facts we have in front of us. But it doesn't necessarily determine the decision. We have to set against the problems with aria: the medium- and long-term negative aspects of the aria- approach, which focusses on ease of ARIA integration in text/html environments at the expense of costly integration throughout the application/...+xml universe. From my perspective, the cost of aria: in the text/html environment is modest, manageable, and declining over time, whereas the cost of aria- in the application/...+xml universe is large and permanent. The reality as I see it is that ARIA integration into the text/html world is going to be messy and bug-prone in the short term no matter what we do. If you contrast the simplicity of either your or my simple checkbox example [1] [2], which only works in some browsers, with the complexity of the genuinely interoperable versions [3] [4], the familiar pattern of non-obvious cleverness which is the reality of fully interoperable Web 2.0 Javascript is evident. Of course it's a judgement call, but giving DOM consistency a veto seems to me an over-reaction, when doing so isn't even sufficient to give us interoperable solutions. So, I end up still weighing the long-term value for the whole W3C community of a clean extensibility story, with the specific benefit for ARIA of _not_ requiring detailed bilateral negotiation with every WG that owns an XML language into which ARIA should integrate, more highly that the marginal cost of aria: vs. aria- to text/html script writers. ht [1] http://www.mozilla.org/access/dhtml/checkbox-colons.xhtml [2] http://www.w3.org/XML/2008/04/ARIA-Testing/leventhal-colon-xhtml.html [3] http://test.cita.uiuc.edu/aria/checkbox/checkbox1.php [4] http://www.w3.org/XML/2008/04/ARIA-Testing/uct-colon-xhtml.html - -- Henry S. Thompson, HCRC Language Technology Group, University of Edinburgh Half-time member of W3C Team 2 Buccleuch Place, Edinburgh EH8 9LW, SCOTLAND -- (44) 131 650-4440 Fax: (44) 131 650-4587, e-mail: ht@inf.ed.ac.uk URL: http://www.ltg.ed.ac.uk/~ht/ [mail really from me _always_ has this .sig -- mail without it is forged spam] -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFIPp33kjnJixAXWBoRAmOQAJoD2N/vBaPhVRjlQ9NigQ0QwI0rpgCfUD2o HQz2RtOwO1uo9cPQHFwWPqY= =JEHT -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Received on Thursday, 29 May 2008 12:26:50 UTC