RE: URIs for quantities and units defined within ISO 80000 and ISO 1000

Dear Michel,

The unit vs. scale is difficult because:
1) a scale can be defined for any quantity, and is more fundamental than
unit in this sense; but
2) in most cases a scale is derived from a unit.

I also hope that we can begin general discussions before raising another
difficulty - that metre-scale and metre-unit are different but related
things, and we need to have both.

Best regards,
David

At 11:53 04/08/2008 +0200, you wrote:
>
>Hi David,
>
>I like the approach (actually see it as key success factor for our XG
>models using those URIs).
>Small things:
>- everywhere you say quantity & unit...insnt it actually quantity &
>scale & (often) unit
>- - ie doesn't scale become an even more generic concept than unit (in
>our apporach)
>- maybe add a using example as from the wiki (ship length stuff) for
>explanation
>
>Ch/Michel
> 
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: public-xg-w3pm-request@w3.org
>[mailto:public-xg-w3pm-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of David Leal
>Sent: 04 August 2008 11:41
>To: public-xg-w3pm@w3.org; david.price@eurostep.com
>Subject: RE: URIs for quantities and units defined within ISO 80000 and
>ISO 1000
>
>Dear All,
>
>The e-mail below did not elicit any responses. It would be good to have
>some opinions.
>
>We can then start to arrange some initial contacts between W3PM, ISO
>TC12, and ISO TC184/SC4.
>
>Best regards,
>David
>
>>Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 12:03:10 +0100
>>To: public-xg-w3pm@w3.org
>>From: David Leal <david.leal@caesarsystems.co.uk>
>>Subject: RE: URIs for quantities and units defined within ISO 80000 and
>
>>ISO
>1000
>>Cc: 
>>X-Attachments: C:\EA_2\w3pm\why_uris_for_quantities_and_units.htm;
>>
>>Dear All,
>>
>>I have had a very helpful exchange of e-mails with Saruhashi Atsuko of 
>>ISO
>about making contact with the Technical Committee responsible for
>standards for quantities and units. The e-mails are attached below.
>>
>>It would probably be useful to have a summary for why URIs for 
>>quantities
>and units are valid, to explain our objectives to those who know nothing
>of the Semantic Web. An initial attempt at a summary is attached.
>Comments would be welcome.
>>
>>Best regards,
>>David
>>
>>>Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 18:02:43 +0200
>>>From: Atsuko Saruhashi <saruhashi@iso.org>
>>>Subject: RE: URIs for quantities and units defined within ISO 80000 
>>>and
>ISO 1000
>>>To: 'David Leal' <david.leal@caesarsystems.co.uk>
>>>Cc: michel.bohms@tno.nl, howard.mason@baesystems.com, 
>>>david.price@eurostep.com
>>>
>>>Dear David,
>>>
>>>Thank you for your email. 
>>>
>>>Regarding your request, I consulted the TPM for ISO TC 12 and she 
>>>recommended me to contact Mr. Anders J Thor (athor@mech.kth.se). He is
>
>>>the Convenor for many WGs under ISO TC 12. And TPM for ISO TC 12 
>>>already forwarded your email to him, so please contact him directly 
>>>for further discussion.
>>>
>>>Should you need further information, please let me know.
>>>I hope this helps you. 
>>>
>>>Best regards,
>>>Atsuko
>>>
>>>P.S. I will be out of office from 18thPM to 28th(inclusive) and I have
>
>>>a limited access to emails.
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: David Leal [mailto:david.leal@caesarsystems.co.uk]
>>>Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 19:00
>>>To: Saruhashi Atsuko
>>>Cc: michel.bohms@tno.nl; howard.mason@baesystems.com; 
>>>david.price@eurostep.com
>>>Subject: URIs for quantities and units defined within ISO 80000 and 
>>>ISO 1000
>>>
>>>Dear Atsuko,
>>>
>>>The Product Modelling "incubator group"
>>>(http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/w3pm/) within W3C was formed a few 
>>>months ago. A W3C incubator group investigates technologies with a 
>>>potential for broad use as part of the infrastructure of the Web.
>>>
>>>An initial area of work for the group has been quantities and units on
>
>>>the Web. As far as we are aware, this area is not yet covered by any 
>>>W3C recommendation or ISO standard. The basic concepts are defined in 
>>>the ISO/IEC 80000 series, ISO 1000, and by the BIPM. However, these 
>>>standards are not concerned with Web implementation.
>>>
>>>The W3C Product Modelling group has suggested an approach to Web 
>>>implementation, but this approach is totally dependent upon an 
>>>appropriate authoritative body, e.g. ISO, IEC, or BIPM, assigning URIs
>
>>>to basic concepts such as quantity types:
>>>- length;
>>>- thermodynamic temperature;
>>>- mass;
>>>- amount of substance;
>>>- etc.,
>>>and units:
>>>- metre;
>>>- Kelvin;
>>>- kilogram;
>>>- mole;
>>>- etc..
>>>
>>>ISO has done preparatory work relevant to this in its URN proposal 
>>>(http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-goodwin-iso-urn-03). A next step 
>>>could be contact between the W3C Product Modelling group, ISO 
>>>TC184/SC4, and the TCs responsible for the ISO/IEC 80000 series and 
>>>ISO 1000. The objective of the meeting would be:
>>>1) to discuss requirements for referencing quantities and units on the
>
>>>Web; and
>>>2) the assignment of URIs for quantities and units to meet these 
>>>requirements.
>>>
>>>This area is of interest to ISO TC184/SC4. Most of the existing SC4 
>>>standards would not use URIs assigned to quantities and units 
>>>immediately, because the existing approach defined within ISO 10303-41
>
>>>works. However, future SC4 standards could take advantage of this. 
>>>There is also considerable expertise on product data on the Web within
>
>>>SC4 which would be valuable.
>>>
>>>I would be very grateful if you could advise on how to make contact 
>>>with the TCs responsible for the ISO/IEC 80000 series and ISO 1000, in
>
>>>order to make progress on this matter.
>>>
>>>Best regards,
>>>David
>>>
>>>cc: Michel Bohms, chair of W3C Product Modelling XG
>>>    Howard Mason, chair of ISO TC184/SC4
>>>    David Price, co-convenor of ISO TC184/SC4 "Industrial Data on the
>Web"
>>>group
>>
>This e-mail and its contents are subject to the DISCLAIMER at
http://www.tno.nl/disclaimer/email.html
>
>
>

============================================================
David Leal
CAESAR Systems Limited
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Received on Monday, 4 August 2008 15:26:48 UTC