Re: Proposal: Timings for regular meetings

Hi Kevin,

Sounds like a great idea and thanks for helping out on this one.  I  
think the 2 time slot is probably the way to go.

I have created a new Doodle and it is linked at:  http://www.doodle.com/ys2d7y9pv25x746g

Regards,

Amit

On 17/04/2009, at 3:17 AM, Kevin R. Page wrote:

Hello all,

I realise we haven't heard back from everyone, but given the broad
support from Australia I think it's sensible to see if the proposed
times work when applied to days of the week (personally I know it'll be
harder to set aside an particular evening for the foreseeable future
than re-arrange my work schedule!).

I have moved Week (b) half an hour earlier at the request of John
Graybeal - he's the early extreme on this one, so I assume this will be
ok with everyone else. If not, shout! The obvious problem would be any
other Western US people who aren't so keen on earlier rather than later.


Amit, if this is acceptable, perhaps you could create a doodle for two
random weeks this summer, with the first week having slots at 20:00 UTC,
and the second at 12:30 UTC.

We could then vote on this as a generic future fortnight with
alternating fixed slots (rather than the specific dates doodle will
show).

I suggest we leave off Friday (UTC) in Week (a) as this will be Saturday
morning in Australia, and possibly in Week (b) too when it'd be a late
Friday night for Australia.

I'm also completely happy to leave this discussion until our next
telecon if that's more appropriate, though I'd have thought the sooner
we can start fixing regular dates in our diaries the better.

Finally...

I believe the two slots proposed are the only ones where we have a
reasonable chance of full attendance. For America and Europe this means
one meeting in office hours, next week out-of-hours (and the times are a
bit extreme). Australia gets both extremes.

I've also worked up a three way rotation for comparison. Each slot is in
office hours for one continent, out-of-hours but less extreme for
another (in brackets), and middle of the night for the final continent.

This pretty much guarantees that participants in any one continent will
miss every third week, but if anyone has a preference for such a scheme,
now would be the time to speak up.



PROPOSED ALTERNATING WEEKLY SLOTS:

Week (a)
UTC 20:00
= 06:00 +1 day, Eastern Australia (UTC+10)
= 23:00, Eastern Europe (UTC+3)
= 22:00, Central Europe (UTC+2)
= 21:00, UK and Ireland (UTC+1)
= 16:00, Eastern US (UTC-4)
= 13:00, Western US (UTC-7)

Week (b)
UTC 12:30
= 22:30, Eastern Australia
= 15:30, Eastern Europe
= 14:30, Central Europe
= 13:30, UK and Ireland
= 08:30, Eastern US
= 05:30, Western US



ALTERNATIVE THREE-WAY ALTERNATING WEEKLY SLOTS (for comparison)

Australia (and America)
UTC 22:00
= 09:00 +1 day, Eastern Australia
= 01:00 +1 day, Eastern Europe
= 24:00, Central Europe
= 23:00, UK and Ireland
= 18:00, Eastern US
= 15:00, Western US

America (and Europe)
UTC 16:00
= 03:00 +1 day, Eastern Australia
= 19:00, Eastern Europe
= 18:00, Central Europe
= 17:00, UK and Ireland
= 12:00, Eastern US
= 09:00, Western US

Europe (and Australia)
UTC 08:00
= 19:00 +1 day, Eastern Australia
= 11:00, Eastern Europe
= 10:00, Central Europe
= 09:00, UK and Ireland
= 04:00, Eastern US
= 01:00, Western US



On Thu, 2009-04-16 at 12:16 +1000, Kerry.Taylor@csiro.au wrote:
> +1 from me also in Eastern Australia. We still get the
> tough deal, but then we are also quite used to that!
>
> Kerry
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: public-xg-ssn-request@w3.org
>> [mailto:public-xg-ssn-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Michael Compton
>> Sent: Thursday, 16 April 2009 9:44 AM
>> To: Kevin R.Page
>> Cc: public-xg-ssn@w3.org
>> Subject: [ExternalEmail] Re: Proposal: Timings for regular meetings
>>
>> I'm happy (well happy falls within your definition of pushing the
>> reasonable boundary) to do the 11pm  (Canberra time, it's 1pm Zulu)
>> meeting this week.  And I agree it seems that someone is
>> always on the
>> bad end of this deal.
>>
>> Just to confuse matters a little bit, all us Australians are in
>> Eastern Australia (Canberra and Hobart), but the times you
>> put up are
>> for Eastern Australia (we call it EST, but that's just gunna confuse
>> things even more :-)  ) not Western Australia  ... and the
>> conversion
>> from west to east is later not earlier ... ahhhh!
>>
>> I'm happy with a simple alternation of the meeting times (I'd
>> just sat
>> down and worked out a 3-way 8 hour rotation thingy, but Amit rightly
>> pointed out that it was rubbish).  I'll do +1 for
>>
>>
>>> Period (a)
>>> UTC 20:00 - 21:00
>>> = 06:00 - 07:00 +1 day, Eastern Australia
>>> = 23:00 - 24:00, Eastern Europe
>>> = 22:00 - 23:00, Central Europe
>>> = 21:00 - 22:00, UK and Ireland
>>> = 16:00 - 17:00, Eastern US
>>> = 13:00 - 14:00, Western US
>>>
>>> Period (b)
>>> UTC 13:00 - 14:00
>>> = 23:00 - 24:00, Eastern Australia
>>> = 16:00 - 17:00, Eastern Europe
>>> = 15:00 - 16:00, Central Europe
>>> = 14:00 - 15:00, UK and Ireland
>>> = 09:00 - 10:00, Eastern US
>>> = 06:00 - 07:00, Western US
>>
>>
>> In 6 months we can move it around if better times work.
>>
>>
>> Michael
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 16/04/2009, at 8:33 , Kevin R. Page wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 2009-04-15 at 13:20 -0700, John Graybeal wrote:
>>>> As I'm Western US, moving the second one to the 0800 -
>> 1000 time slot
>>>> would be most helpful (means I only have to get up at 5 AM, not 3
>>>> AM).  I realize that may disadvantage Western Australia (what? no
>>>> Eastern Australia?), so I'll take what comes.
>>>
>>> Yes, apologies, I'd missed off Western US too. The
>>> participants/affiliation list doesn't make it particularly obvious
>>> which
>>> timezone people are in.
>>>
>>> Applying the (somewhat arbitrary) "least unreasonable" hours of
>>> 06:00 -
>>> 24:00, this leaves us with two small possible periods (below). If we
>>> alternated between them the pain would be shared relatively evenly,
>>> apart from Australia getting both an early and a late.
>>>
>>> My instinct would be to alternate between 21:00 and 13:00
>> UTC slots to
>>> make it mildly less painful for Australia while keeping within the
>>> periods, though personally I think this should be decided by those
>>> worst
>>> affected - i.e. participants in Australia. They may prefer always
>>> early,
>>> or always late.
>>>
>>> Or, entirely reasonably, that alternate weeks should be
>> office hours
>>> for
>>> Australia. At this juncture it's always going to be ~3am for
>>> someone, so
>>> we probably want to abandon the periods proposed below and select a
>>> different set of "best" periods based on rotating and minimising who
>>> it's ~3am for. I'd imagine a 3-way rotation would work best.
>>>
>>>> From email headers it looks like all our Australian
>> colleagues are in
>>> the Western Australian timezone. If we do have participants
>> in Eastern
>>> Australia (2 hours earlier) period (a) won't be feasible within the
>>> "least unreasonable" constraints.
>>>
>>> In ~6 months when the Northern Hemisphere leaves daylight
>> savings time
>>> and the Southern Hemisphere starts DST, period (a) will
>> become better
>>> (less early for Australia, less late for Europe), and period (b)
>>> worse!
>>>
>>> Any other timezones I've missed? ;)
>>>
>>>
>>> Period (a)
>>> UTC 20:00 - 21:00
>>> = 06:00 - 07:00 +1 day, Western Australia
>>> = 23:00 - 24:00, Eastern Europe
>>> = 22:00 - 23:00, Central Europe
>>> = 21:00 - 22:00, UK and Ireland
>>> = 16:00 - 17:00, Eastern US
>>> = 13:00 - 14:00, Western US
>>>
>>> Period (b)
>>> UTC 13:00 - 14:00
>>> = 23:00 - 24:00, Western Australia
>>> = 16:00 - 17:00, Eastern Europe
>>> = 15:00 - 16:00, Central Europe
>>> = 14:00 - 15:00, UK and Ireland
>>> = 09:00 - 10:00, Eastern US
>>> = 06:00 - 07:00, Western US
>>>
>>>
>>> cheers,
>>>
>>> Kevin.
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Apr 15, 2009, at 12:33 PM, Kevin R. Page wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, 2009-04-15 at 21:34 +0300, hornsby wrote:
>>>>>> just a quick addition, Finland is period (a) EET = 23:00 - 01:00
>>>>>> that's indeed pushing the "reasonable" boundaries :)
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry Adrian, I overlooked EET!
>>>>>
>>>>> I tried to apply "least unreasonable" local hours of
>> 06:00-24:00 to
>>>>> each
>>>>> timezone. Had I included EET the periods should have been:
>>>>>
>>>>> Period (a)
>>>>> UTC 20:00 - 21:00
>>>>> = 06:00 - 07:00 +1 day, Western Australia
>>>>> = 23:00 - 24:00, Eastern Europe
>>>>> = 22:00 - 23:00, Central Europe
>>>>> = 21:00 - 22:00, UK and Ireland
>>>>> = 16:00 - 17:00, Eastern US
>>>>>
>>>>> Period (b)
>>>>> UTC 10:00 - 14:00
>>>>> = 20:00 - 24:00, Western Australia
>>>>> = 13:00 - 17:00, Eastern Europe
>>>>> = 12:00 - 16:00, Central Europe
>>>>> = 11:00 - 15:00, UK and Ireland
>>>>> = 06:00 - 10:00, Eastern US
>>>>>
>>>>> Which unfortunately is a shift for the worse in Australia.
>>>>>
>>>>> Other than this amendment the proposal stands.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Kevin
>>>>>
>>>>> P.S. Of course I say this sitting in the UK, where we
>> have an unfair
>>>>> historical advantage meaning we're rarely at the extremes of any
>>>>> timezone clash... sorry...
>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Kevin R. Page <krp@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
>>>>>> To: public-xg-ssn@w3.org
>>>>>> Subject: Proposal: Timings for regular meetings
>>>>>> Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 19:25:53 +0100
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Might I suggest we have a separate discussion/doodle for
>> setting a
>>>>>> regular meeting slot, or pair of alternating meeting slots. I
>>>>>> suspect
>>>>>> many of us can arrange our diaries around a regular time in the
>>>>>> future,
>>>>>> while diaries for the upcoming couple of weeks will already be
>>>>>> relatively full.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Given the wide spread of timezones [1], I propose there
>> are only a
>>>>>> couple of periods of the day that are reasonable for all
>> involved.
>>>>>> And
>>>>>> I'm pushing the boundaries of "reasonable" here, as
>> there certainly
>>>>>> isn't a time that'll be ideal for everyone. Please
>> correct me if
>>>>>> I've
>>>>>> got your timezone wrong!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> These are:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Period (a)
>>>>>> UTC 20:00 - 22:00
>>>>>> = 06:00 - 08:00 +1 day, Western Australia
>>>>>> = 22:00 - 24:00, Central Europe
>>>>>> = 21:00 - 23:00, UK and Ireland
>>>>>> = 16:00 - 18:00, Eastern US
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Period (b)
>>>>>> UTC 10:00 - 14:00
>>>>>> = 20:00 - 24:00, Western Australia
>>>>>> = 12:00 - 16:00, Central Europe
>>>>>> = 11:00 - 15:00, UK and Ireland
>>>>>> = 06:00 - 10:00, Eastern US
>>>>>>
>>>>>> These are the *only* periods when it isn't the middle of
>> the night
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> someone. I suggest we see if we can get these to work -
>> if we can't
>>>>>> we'll have to alternate between times that some participants
>>>>>> definitely
>>>>>> won't be able to attend.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I also note that the majority of *both* of these periods are
>>>>>> out-of-office-hours for Australia. This is not true for the other
>>>>>> timezones, where at least one of the periods is within office
>>>>>> hours.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I therefore propose we give our Australian colleagues
>> the vote of:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1) alternating between an earlier and later slot both
>> within period
>>>>>> (b)
>>>>>> (to accommodate the start of the working day in the US), or
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2) alternating between a slot in period (a) and a slot
>> in period
>>>>>> (b),
>>>>>> with the option of restricting (a) to e.g. only 22:00 UTC, or
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 3) not feasible to always have the meeting out of hours in
>>>>>> Australia
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Once a scheme is selected, we can doodle for days of the
>> week/hour
>>>>>> slots
>>>>>> within the periods provided.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think this will allow us to choose the "least worst" regular
>>>>>> meeting
>>>>>> slot, where the out-of-hours inconvenience is spread as evenly as
>>>>>> possible amongst participants.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [1] from the participant list:
>>>>>> http://www.w3.org/2000/09/dbwg/details?group=43337
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> kev
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> kev
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Kevin R. Page
>>>>> krp@ecs.soton.ac.uk
>> http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/info/people/krp
>>>>> Intelligence, Agents, Multimedia      University of
>> Southampton, UK
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>> --------------
>>>> John Graybeal   <mailto:graybeal@mbari.org>  -- 831-775-1956
>>>> Monterey Bay Aquarium Research Institute
>>>> Marine Metadata Interoperability Project: http://marinemetadata.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> kev
>>>
>>> --
>>> Kevin R. Page
>>> krp@ecs.soton.ac.uk      http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/info/people/krp
>>> Intelligence, Agents, Multimedia      University of Southampton, UK
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>

Regards,

kev

--
Kevin R. Page
krp@ecs.soton.ac.uk      http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/info/people/krp
Intelligence, Agents, Multimedia      University of Southampton, UK

Received on Tuesday, 21 April 2009 00:43:42 UTC