- From: Kaliya <kaliya@mac.com>
- Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 09:36:50 -0700
- To: Harry Halpin <hhalpin@ibiblio.org>
- Cc: public-xg-socialweb@w3.org
> I added more links and clarified some things :) > Invited Speaker: Kaliya Hamlin > > kaliya: Hi everybody! Asks how many people here > > hhalpin: About 20 people > > <rreck> there are 22 people on irc > > <hhalpin> Kaliya is from Internet Identity Workshop http://www.internetidentityworkshop.com If you are interested in seeing the a video about IIW and the core technologies...it is a great overview from a user-perspective http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mY5ghFa61-w She also took some video of different sessions you can watch. http://digitalidcoach.com/2009/05/videos-from-iiw8/ > > > kaliya: I sent you a lot of links, hope you read them, didn't send > all the links in all the articles - I can if you want them all in your records > additional ones with history and context of the community they tell some of the history and context of the community. > > <hhalpin> Which has been a quite important community and event in > creating notions of digital identity, openID. > > kaliya: history is that Identity Commons came together to see how > individuals could manage and control their own identities > ... so that they could own this layer of the web > ... Community formed in 2004/2005 was really focussed on > user-centric identity > ... Harry asked me to talk about high level strategies, key terms > are in the community lexicon which defines shared language (e.g. the > word identity) > ... community stopped arguing about what identity meant, and > focussed more on identifiers > ... and came to definitions of what claims where, in that they are > really just attributes > ... claims can be made by yourself for yourself or by other entities > (e.g. companies, non-profits) for other people > > <hhalpin> seems the important concepts so far: identifier and entity > (anything that can make a statement about an identifier) the place to "get" at least the original lexicon is here... http://wiki.idcommons.net/Lexicon these were settled long ago and amongst at least the core tech coming out of our community the words in use mean these things. > kaliya: separation between authentication presenting a token and then getting that > and authorisation, and > enrollment (how someone is given an identifier by someone) like > getting a company ID when you become an employer. and validation (checking someone "is" who they say they are) or claims that are validated by some third party > > > <pchampin> entity ~ foaf:Agent? (just trying to align my own > vocabulary...) > > <bblfish> I added the Social Web XG to > [27]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_web > > [27] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_web > > kaliya: In the same article about community, user-centric, > company-centric and card?-centric You can see the evolution of thinking via these posts from Johannes. http://netmesh.info/jernst/Digital_Identity/three-standards.html http://netmesh.info/jernst/Digital_Identity/updating-three-standards.html http://www.xmlgrrl.com/blog/archives/2007/03/28/the-venn-of-identity/ http://www.xmlgrrl.com/publications/IEEESecPriv-MarApr2008-MalerReed-Venn.pdf I guess too - blogging is a big part of the community our aggregate blog is http://www.planetidentity.org if any of you have blogs on this/related subjects and want to be aggregated there just ask Pat > > > <bblfish> also added foaf+ssl to > [28]http://wiki.idcommons.net/Identity_Landscape THIS is WAY out of date and is not currently maintained. > > > <hhalpin> user-centric/card-centric/organization-centric > > <hhalpin> Infocard > > kaliya: references informationcards.net > > <mattroweshow> [29]http://informationcard.net/ > > [29] http://informationcard.net/ > > kaliya: Misunderstanding that the only org involved is Microsoft, > but the open source grassroots community has embraced and extended > it even further > ... That project is called the "Hidden Project"? Available on Adobe > Air > ... Interesting journey to get to where we are today http://www.higgins-project.org > > > <hhalpin> Venn diagram: > [30]http://www.xmlgrrl.com/publications/IEEESecPriv-MarApr2008-Maler > Reed-Venn.pd > > [30] http://www.xmlgrrl.com/publications/IEEESecPriv-MarApr2008-MalerReed-Venn.pd > > <hhalpin> > [31]http://www.xmlgrrl.com/publications/IEEESecPriv-MarApr2008-Maler > Reed-Venn.pdf > > [31] http://www.xmlgrrl.com/publications/IEEESecPriv-MarApr2008-MalerReed-Venn.pdf > > kaliya: All social networking platforms show up at their events; > very market driven; "what are users tell us are what we will do" > > > > kaliya: They are working really well together to support portability > and open authentication http://www.oauth.org Helps address the password anti-pattern that is sites asking other sites for peoples username and password to get data on their behalf from other accounts http://www.portablecontacts.net/ People taking their address book around easily. Both of these are more ad-hoc driven standards that are lead by implementors. Once written they are put into practice by the likes of Google, MSFT, Plaxo, Yahoo! etc. > <hhalpin> nn Diagram Identity > > <hhalpin> [32]http://www.eclipse.org/higgins/ > > [32] http://www.eclipse.org/higgins/ > > kaliya: PortableContacts for standardising the info people have in > their networks > > <caribou> contacts or context? > > kaliya: Ready to answer questions on what they've read and what they > want to know about the community > > hhalpin: We haven't thought about the notion of identity so far > ... Haven't talked about Information Cards > ... Will be more asking for guidance about the identity landscape > ... User versus card versus organisation > > kaliya: that is an old model, but now we have gotten to the Venn of > identity > ... evolution of our thinking is to help SWXG get to where they have > gotten to, or at least to see how to get there > > hhalpin: Through the link out on IRC to the paper Harry has read and > suggests other in SWXG do too > ... A lot of backgrounds in this group are from portability from > Semantic Web and also mobile phones + social networking > > bblfish: Henry in a cafe > ... added to the identity landscape wiki about foaf+ssl work > ... using URIs for identity > ... interesting to hear how that work can integrate more into the > identity commons > > kaliya: has heard about foaf - wants to bring more info about it to > the Identity Commons community > > bblfish: Is it enough to add to the wiki? > > kaliya: Join the community list, 500-600 people, was the mailing > list that got the community started http://lists.idcommons.net/lists community list stewards list is also open about governing the community. > > > <hhalpin> Do we have anyone on that identity commons mailing-list? > > kaliya: Say hey do you know about this, we're working on it, and get > people to interact with you > > bblfish: Will try that > > <hhalpin> Perhaps we should get a liason? > > kaliya: More formal process > > hhalpin: Asks what this process is > > kaliya: Unique organisation as described in charter > (non-proscriptive), have a monthly call http://wiki.idcommons.net/Working_Groups you can click on some of the charters to see them. > > > hhalpin: Might discuss if we should have someone join from SWXG > > caribou: Do you have links to the ISO work on identity management > > kaliya: Haven't to her knowledge > > <hajons> +q > > hhalpin: Any more questions? > > <caribou> ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC 27 WG5 working on an Identity Management > framework > > <hhalpin> caribou - should we ask ISO to present on what they are up > to? > > hajons: In telecommunications, have IMF - identity management - > connect telecommunications network through the internet - has there > been participation from IMS vendors etc. > > kaliya: Has been participation from European telecommunications > vendors > ... Our community is mainly made up of web portal folks and large > enterprises > ... Y!, Google, MySpace, Facebook, Plaxo, etc. > > <renato> notes that W3C PLING has a liaison under way with ISO/IEC > JTC 1/SC 27 WG5 > > hhalpin: One thing we're trying to do is something similar to IC - > you pointed out abstract functionality, separations that came out of > IC - authentication, authorisation, validation - where is this > written up? > > kaliya: Article about cultivating community and shared language > links to the lexicon; one of the first things they did > > hhalpin: Seems that what has happened in Internet Identity workshops > is that you have technology that is filling these functionalities; > in W3C groups, we are not sure how they all fit together > ... need details of how technology X with functionality Y and are > thinking of a matrix that could be used in our final report to W3C > > <hhalpin> identifier: OpenID - an anchor > > kaliya: What are we managing? Step back and ask why are we managing > for people. e.g. identifiers, openid gives people an anchor on the > web > > <hhalpin> via their own domain name or an identity provider > > > kaliya: either as their own domain name or a facebook url > ... another key thing that came out of the community was discovery XRD work http://wiki2008.openid.net/XRD_Discovery_For_HTTP_and_HTTPS_URLs http://www.hueniverse.com/hueniverse/2009/03/xrdbased-oauth-discovery-sneakpeek.html (oh yeah -you should talk to Eran too) > > ... how do you find out what came out of the endpoint? > ... Does it point to where my photos, IMs, etc. are? > ... Kind of spun out into it's own spec and part of XRI tech > committee at OASIS > ... How can people link their different accounts together without > giving away their passwords > > <hhalpin> kaliya: XRD = discovery, what does an endpoint do, take a > phone call, etc. > > kaliya: Data portability / user control ideas > ... Hand me a card that allows some claims to be made > ... Different from the physical version > ... In real world, they don't take a photocopy of your driver's > license > ... In digital world, just want to share some info > ... It's enough to know age, not eye colour - selective disclosure > ... MS bough Qidentica who does this selective disclosure credentica http://www.credentica.com/u-prove_sdk.html Stefan now works for MSFT http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stefan_Brands > > ... Another wing of community is focussed on how individuals could > have tools that help them manage relationships with companies they > do business with (productCRM) > > > <mattroweshow> [33]http://projectvrm.net/ > > [33] http://projectvrm.net/ > > kaliya: Midack? in the UK and lots of activity in London around VRM > hub > ... Identities never happen in isolation - in context of a group or > entity or other individuals www.projectvrm.org in London - http://vrmhub.pbworks.com/ Company implementing this http://mydex.org/ also doing a volunteered personal information sig at what was Liberty Alliance and just recently rebranded/organized as Kantara Intiative http://wiki.projectliberty.org/index.php/Liberty_Volunteered_Personal_Information_SIG_Charter He has a taxonomy/ontology of 3500 (maybe there is another zero in that) attributes about a person. Really amazing vocabularly and map and he wants to open it up and standardize it. > > > <hhalpin> blackley relationship paper > > kaliya: Great paper by Bob Blakley > ... relationship paper > > [34] http://identityblog.burtongroup.com/bgidps/2009/02/relationship-paper-now-freely-available.html > > hhalpin: Great pointers and info > ... after telecon we will go through these notes and try to extract > general points > ... Idea of invited speakers makes more and more cross-community > conversations > ... Internet Identity Workshop is happening in November in > California at around the same time as the W3C meeting > ... Asks Kaliya for format of the IIW > > <hajons> +1 IIW > > <bblfish> sounds good. > > hhalpin: and asks if anyone is planning to go > > <jsalvachua> +1 > > <DKA> +0.5 > > [35]http://www.internetidentityworkshop.com/ > > [35] http://www.internetidentityworkshop.com/ > > kaliya: Twice a year > ... Same place > ... Where all the big Social Web companies are > ... in Silicon valley > ... Don't have an agenda ahead of time, bring communities together > ... In the morning after an intro section, community makes the > agenda > > <bblfish> I think I went there a year ago > > kaliya: Different technical activities are happening and they want > to cover it F2F during the meeting > ... So unlike conferences where real work happens in the hallways > ... Super productive! > ... Also reduces a lot of the politics, no committee deciding who > gets to speak > ... November 3-5 [36]http://www.internetidentityworkshop.com/ > > [36] http://www.internetidentityworkshop.com/ > > <hhalpin> Nov 3-5th. > > kaliya: have discussed having it all week with different industry > areas - not fully decided > > <bblfish> Oh yes, I did go there last year > [37]http://blogs.sun.com/bblfish/entry/3_weeks_of_conferences_and > > [37] http://blogs.sun.com/bblfish/entry/3_weeks_of_conferences_and > > TPAC = [38]http://www.w3.org/2009/11/TPAC/Overview.html > > [38] http://www.w3.org/2009/11/TPAC/Overview.html > > hhalpin: Asks it it's okay to come for 1-2 days > > kaliya: Yes > > hhalpin: Will have a few people there financial cuts permitting > ... What would you see is the best way for us to continue future > interactions apart from joining mailing list > ... Who would Kaliya suggest we talk to next - e.g. Higgins project > ... What could W3C do? Report about Social Web in general, but a lot > of work is happening not with W3C partially because of structural > issues with W3C - IRC is viewed as a pain, membership fees are > really high > > kaliya: Sense in Silicon valley that market adoption is what a > standard is, so don't care as much about standards organisations > ... Community around Open Web Foundation interesting (Messina, > Smarr); community around OpenSocial is interesting (KevinMarks et > al.) > ... Chris Messina is working on distributed social networking (DiSo) > ... Mentions some names from Higgins Project, missed who as audio > not great > Mary Ruddy and Paul Trevithick > hhalpin: As an XG, main task is to write a report. One year to do so > (or 3/4 at this point). To bootstrap, when we have invited speakers, > someone will clean up the minutes to summarise it for the report > ... Just so we don't lose track of everything that's happened > ... Throw minutes by kaliya for review > > kaliya: Is on list > > hhalpin: Asks for volunteers to edit minutes > > <bblfish> mhh > > <bblfish> we could do it > > <hajons> one definition of identity was mentioned as being > particularly good, but I couldn't quite hear what it was called > (venner??), and didn't see it in the script either. What was it? > > kaliya: one of the challenges is that there is so much stuff > happening in community and quite broad so hard to summarise it > > <bblfish> yes. > > hhalpin: Henry to do first draft, Harry to go over it, and then send > to Kaliya > > <jsalvachua> have to go sorry, a lot of information to digest :) > thanks. > > <bblfish> Good reading > > bblfish: Was at IIW a year ago, gave a talk about FOAF+SSL at > Mountain View > > <hhalpin> ACTION: bblfish and hhalpin to write up kaliya's talk for > future report [recorded in > [39]http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-swxg-minutes.html#action13] > > <trackbot> Created ACTION-46 - And hhalpin to write up kaliya's talk > for future report [on Henry Story - due 2009-07-01]. > > kaliya: community@lists.idcommons.net > > <hhalpin> lots of activity on OASIS and concordia lists > > kaliya: there is also an interop list > > hhalpin: Kaliya to send links to listserv, at next meeting can go > over the principles > > <DKA> I must leave the call -- thanks very much to our guest speaker > for great info though! (And thanks for waking up so early!) > > hhalpin: any final questions, now over 1 hour > ... Thanks the invited speaker > > <rreck> thanks > > <hhalpin> thanks! > > <hajons> thanks > > <pchampin> thanks > > <bblfish> thanks :-) > > <hhalpin> Meeting Adjourned > > <rreck> very informative kaliya > > Summary of Action Items > > [NEW] ACTION: bblfish and hhalpin to write up kaliya's talk for > future report [recorded in > [40]http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-swxg-minutes.html#action13] > [NEW] ACTION: DKA to invite Dan to W3C Social Web XG for context > comm call [recorded in > [41]http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-swxg-minutes.html#action02] > [NEW] ACTION: hhalpin to create draft use-case document in W3C CVS > [recorded in > [42]http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-swxg-minutes.html#action01] > > [PENDING] ACTION: cperey to make list of top 30 to do profiles on, > to merge with hhalpin's list on alexa [recorded in > [43]http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-swxg-minutes.html#action11] > [PENDING] ACTION: danbri and karl to contact Evan of identi.ca over > OpenMicroblogging and W3C. [recorded in > [44]http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-swxg-minutes.html#action04] > [PENDING] ACTION: danbri to find someone from Opera to talk Widgets > [recorded in > [45]http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-swxg-minutes.html#action03] > [PENDING] ACTION: danbri write up orkut/i18n/"looking for" issue. > [recorded in > [46]http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-swxg-minutes.html#action08] > [PENDING] ACTION: hhalpin to retrieve top X social networking sites > from the top 500 sites of Alexa [recorded in > [47]http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-swxg-minutes.html#action10] > [PENDING] ACTION: karl to create the matrix to be filled [recorded > in [48]http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-swxg-minutes.html#action12] > [PENDING] ACTION: Renato and DanBri and hhalpin to schedule > DataPortability.org/XMPP [recorded in > [49]http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-swxg-minutes.html#action05] > [PENDING] ACTION: tinkster to document danbri's microblogging > provenance question as a user story. [recorded in > [50]http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-swxg-minutes.html#action07] > [PENDING] ACTION: tinkster to document developer stories on wiki. > [recorded in > [51]http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-swxg-minutes.html#action09] > [PENDING] ACTION: tpa to W3C-style "edit" user stories [recorded in > [52]http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-swxg-minutes.html#action06] > > [End of minutes] >
Received on Monday, 29 June 2009 11:45:11 UTC