- From: Ross Singer <ross.singer@talis.com>
- Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 22:51:55 -0500
- To: public-xg-lld@w3.org
Here are the minutes from today's call:
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/06-lld-minutes.html
Thanks, as always, for being patient with my scribing :)
-Ross.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
LLD XG
06 Jan 2011
[2]Agenda
[2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011Jan/0005.html
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2011/01/06-lld-irc
Attendees
Present
antoine, jeff_, TomB, emma, Uldis, GordonD, markva,
AlexanderH, rsinger, Jodi, AnetteS, kcoyle, fsasaki, marcia,
rayd, Phil, kefo, Asaf, Felix, jneubert, monica
Regrets
WilliamW, EdSu, MichaelP
Chair
Antoine
Scribe
rsinger
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]Admin
2. [6]DRAFT OUTLINE FOR FINAL REPORT
3. [7]USE CASES AND CASE STUDIES
4. [8]NEW CLUSTER(S)?
5. [9]TOPICS
* [10]Summary of Action Items
_________________________________________________________
<TomB> Previous:
[11]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/12/16-lld-minu
tes.html
[11] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/12/16-lld-minutes.html
<antoine> Meeting: LLD XG
<antoine> Chair: Antoine
<TomB> antoine - already set up :-)
Admin
Accept minutes of previous meeting?
Accepted
<antoine> RESOLVED: To accept
[12]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/12/16-lld-minu
tes.html
[12] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/12/16-lld-minutes.html
DRAFT OUTLINE FOR FINAL REPORT
[13]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/FinalReportOutline
[13] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/FinalReportOutline
<antoine>
[14]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011Jan/0014.h
tml
[14] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011Jan/0014.html
markva:added to the wiki page
markva:three subsections, one for each term
markva:short explanations and examples for similar terms, confusions
markva: can people look over and see if it's clear?
<markva>
[15]http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/Library_terminology_informally_ex
plained#Vocabularies.2C_Element_sets.2C_Datasets
[15] http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/Library_terminology_informally_explained#Vocabularies.2C_Element_sets.2C_Datasets
emma: q about definitions, attributes or elements
... why use attributes rather than property to describe the
metadata?
markva: i thought we have agreed on term "element"
<TomB> Mark: "A metadata element set defines classes of entities and
attributes (elements) of entities."
markva: property too RDF-centric
emma: questioning the term "attribute"
<kcoyle> i like attribute
markva: using it as synonym - if confusing it can be deleted
<TomB> +1 "attributes" introduces new possibilities for confusion
emma: not relation oriented
... attributes are more like literals, then there are relationships
- between two entities
markva: either delete word "attribute" or add attributes and
relations
emma: add attributes or relations
<Zakim> TomB, you wanted to suggest that people may think of XML
attributes
TomB: see some possibility of confusion with XML attributes, etc.
<Marcia> 'attributes' are used in various library museum metadata
sets/schemas
<kcoyle> unfortunately, attribute is what is used in frbr
<TomB> kcoyle, good point
antoine: is everyone happy with this proposal for markva? any
objection?
<kcoyle> no objection
__SILENCE__
<TomB> can live with "attribute"...
<GordonD> Keep the quote marks around attribute, etc. to warn of
ambiguity between different communities.
<TomB> +1 to Gordon's suggestion
<scribe> ACTION: Mark to add these definitions to the wiki page
[recorded in
[16]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/12/16-lld-minu
tes.html#action01] [DONE]
[16] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/12/16-lld-minutes.html#action01
<antoine> Karen's mail:
[17]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2010Dec/0086.h
tml
[17] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2010Dec/0086.html
"Karen's feedback
[18]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2010Dec/0086.h
tml"
[18] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2010Dec/0086.html
kcoyle: took various things mentioned in the use cases and put them
in a list
... separated them out into proper categories
... gave some interesting examples
... VIAF - is that a dataset? or vocabulary?
jeff_: i don't think VIAF is a vocabulary -- it's an ontology, but
that's not it's purpose
... thing that makes uncomfortable with "data set" is that there's
no bulk download
... geonames, dbpedia are available for download - they are datasets
<jodi> to me, a data set is not necessarily available in bulk
<antoine> +1
<emma> +1 jodi
<Asaf> +1 jodi
markva: looking at VIAF example, and I think it's a vocabulary
... documented in confusions part in aforementioned section
... We can discuss it on the mailing list.
... viaf lists authorities - authorities intended to be used in
metadata records as values of the elements in the records
... also has its own set of metadata elements to describe
authorities
... but primarily intended to be used in other datasets
<jeff_> I can believe VIAF is a value vocabulary in part
<kcoyle> mark makes sense to me. i can see it either way, tho'
markva: can see it either way, but would argue towards value
vocabulary
antoine: things could be both
<Marcia> Authority files are value vocabularies. VIAF itself is a
hub of them and provides more other things. If not consider it as an
authority, it is a dataset.
kcoyle: it's really a function of how you use it
<TomB> MikaelN also made this point at
[19]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-lld/2010Dec/0023.html
[19] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-lld/2010Dec/0023.html
TomB: the important thing here is to distinguish functionality
<Zakim> emma, you wanted to discuss the definition of value vocab
emma: back to the definition of value vocbulary, we need to be more
explicit
... confusion around value term - literal? URI?
... value could be a code, URI, literal, etc.
... these value vocabularies are used in environments as a closed
list
<Marcia> always controlled (value voc.)
emma: always pick from the data set -
<scribe> ACTION: Mark and Emmanuelle to clean definition of value
vocabulary and use of attribute [recorded in
[20]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/06-lld-minu
tes.html#action02]
USE CASES AND CASE STUDIES
[21]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/UseCases - all use
cases are linked here
[21] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/UseCases
<scribe> ACTION: Karen and Emma to curate archive cluster for end of
December [recorded in
[22]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minu
tes.html#action02] [CONTINUES]
[22] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minutes.html#action02
emma: we are closed to finished
... if you're happy with wording, we can delete top of page
... just consider that we're done
kcoyle: minor editing, maybe, but that's it
<scribe> ACTION: Mark, Jodi, and Asaf to curate digital objects
cluster for end of December [recorded in [recorded in
[23]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/06-lld-minu
tes.html#action04] [CONTINUES]
markva: 1/3 away from cluster page
antoine: do you think you'll be finished soon?
markva: won't be here next week, so next 2 weeks?
<Asaf> I will be putting some more time into it in the coming two
weeks
<TomB> wonders if the Cluster pages should be linked to
[24]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/FinalReportOutline ?
[24] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/FinalReportOutline
<emma> +1 Tom
<Asaf> TomB: our thoughts lead this way
<Asaf> we were thinking of proceeding with a view to filling the
outline.
TomB: we could link cluster pages to final report outline
<scribe> ACTION: TomB to link cluster pages to
[25]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/FinalReportOutline
[recorded in
[26]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/06-lld-minu
tes.html#action05]
[25] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/FinalReportOutline
<scribe> ACTION: Gordon and Martin to curate bibliographic data
cluster for end of December [recorded in
[27]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minu
tes.html#action05] [CONTINUES]
[27] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minutes.html#action05
GordonD: still working on it - topic section still the main area to
do. 1 or 2 weeks, max.
<scribe> ACTION: Jeff and Alexander to curate authority data cluster
for end of December [recorded in
[28]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minu
tes.html#action06] [CONTINUES]
[28] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minutes.html#action06
jeff_: still working on it - haven't talked about it, couple of
weeks
... been using google docs to edit the content
<jodi> sorry, skype has been buggy for me recently
<scribe> ACTION: Antoine and Michael to curate vocabulary alignment
cluster for end of December [recorded in
[29]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minu
tes.html#action07] [CONTINUES]
[29] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minutes.html#action07
antoine: quite late on this one, Marcia has joined us
... together can make progress, hope for 1 or 2 weeks
NEW CLUSTER(S)?
-> See "Use case notes page" and "use case clustering" threads
[30]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2010Dec/0064.h
tml
[30] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2010Dec/0064.html
[31]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2010Dec/0071.h
tml
[31] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2010Dec/0071.html
jodi: talked about having a cluster on collections or collection
level description
... find books in a collection, access description, library hours,
etc.
... not sure if it's about collection building?
... social cluster - uldis & jodi curating
<uldis>
[32]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Cluster_Social_Uses
[32] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Cluster_Social_Uses
jodi: social and emergent information information
... circulation data, lending materials to others
<uldis> some ideas at:
[33]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011Jan/0006.h
tml
[33] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011Jan/0006.html
jodi: kindle (nook) lending
<uldis> (and the thread starting at that email)
jodi: lend ebooks to one another, how did they find each other? what
are the circumstances?
... why "emergent" is relevant: whole realm of machine &
computational uses, like relevance ranking
... it's not only ubiquitous, but needs more attention
... use cases are mainly focused on what people are already doing
antoine: would you be happy with continuing discussion on mailing
list?
jodi: yes
<scribe> ACTION: Uldis and Jodi to create social uses cluster
[recorded in
[34]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/12/16-lld-minu
tes.html#action03] [CONTINUES]
[34] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/12/16-lld-minutes.html#action03
<GordonD> I will curate the collections cluster
<jodi> Gordan++
<Asaf> cheers for Gordon!
<GordonD> Co-curators welcome!
<jodi> There's still one use case that doesn't have a cluster. Has
someone adopted this?
[35]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Use_Case_NLL_Digitized
_Map_Archive
[35] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Use_Case_NLL_Digitized_Map_Archive
<jodi> I think maybe it's archives/heterogeneous material but maybe
there's another
<scribe> ACTION: GordonD to curate collection cluster [recorded in
[36]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/06-lld-minu
tes.html#action11]
<GordonD> I assume I will have that support!
<emma> for me, it's rather digital objects
<uldis> perhaps it is relevant to both?
<emma> I'll look at it again.
<markva> is there an aspect of groups in it? then it belongs in DO
<kcoyle> ok
<markva> ok
<Asaf> yes, I think it's in DO.
<scribe> ACTION: Curators of archives and digital objects clusters
to take
[37]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Use_Case_NLL_Digitized
_Map_Archive [recorded in
[38]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/06-lld-minu
tes.html#action12]
[37] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Use_Case_NLL_Digitized_Map_Archive
<scribe> Monica and JISC colleagues to introduce and discuss JISC
work on next call [recorded in
[39]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/11/25-lld-minu
tes.html#action02]
[39] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/11/25-lld-minutes.html#action02
antoine: would we like owen to participate in future call?
<kcoyle> i had a comment/question on clusters/final document
antoine: or are we happy with explanation?
<Asaf> I'd love to hear more on JISC
<Asaf> ...but no one else would?
<TomB> +1
<TomB> ok
<Asaf> I guess I can follow up offline, though.
<Asaf> I don't think it makes sense to use up call time just for me.
<GordonD> +1 for existing explanation
<antoine> +1
<kcoyle> happy enough
<emma> I'm happy with
[40]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-lld/2010Nov/0119.html
[40] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-lld/2010Nov/0119.html
<AnetteS> +1
<Asaf> no, it's fine.
<TomB> fine with me
<antoine> ACTION: Monica and JISC colleagues to introduce and
discuss JISC work on next call [recorded in
[41]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/11/25-lld-minu
tes.html#action02] [DONE]
[41] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/11/25-lld-minutes.html#action02
antoine: perhaps come back to it later rather than close it forever
<Zakim> kcoyle, you wanted to discuss cases of 'missing technology'
TOPICS
[42]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/TopicsDiscussed
[42] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/TopicsDiscussed
<kcoyle>
[43]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-lld/2010Dec/0101.html
[43] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-lld/2010Dec/0101.html
<jodi> this is a key question: what is stopping people
kcoyle: what are the missing technologies that preventing people
from realizing their use cases
... we haven't identified what is needed to move forward?
<emma> we should add a section in use case cluster curation template
<TomB> Karen:
<TomB> [[
<TomB> We don't seem to have identified in our use cases the
problems that
<Marcia> do you mean 'types of' technologies?
<TomB> people are facing; what is holding them back; what is missing
from the
<TomB> available technology that would make LLD implementable. It
seems that
<TomB> this would be an important section in the report since it is
from
<TomB> these barriers that projects could be incubated.
<TomB> ]]
<markva> do you have an example of barrier?
kcoyle: what is missing to help you move forward with your use case?
antoine: topics are mostly technology topics, when we come back, we
can say how they were handled in various use cases
kcoyle: there are probably examples of vocabs needed that don't
exist yet
... there isn't software that helps make relationships in a db
environment
... people making datasets available, but no library specific
applications
... gap analysis
... we didn't ask people doing the use cases to do the gap analysis
<markva> start separate wiki page for that?
antoine: there was a section of the use case template for that - not
many people used it
emma: there is a section for problems and limitations - not always
relevant
... out of all the use cases, one of them might have a limitation
that's general to many
<jodi> I think this is a good idea: looking at all the problems +
limitations out of what's already in the use cases
<GordonD> +1 Emma's suggestion to curate problems/limitations from
use cases and list discussions
emma: education/training, architecture
... we do have some material in the use cases
kcoyle: since i'm the one bothered, i should go through and make a
list
<markva> +1 !
antoine: could you do it for your own cluster?
kcoyle: let me see if our cluster reveals problems
<GordonD> +1
<scribe> ACTION: kcoyle to see if cluster reveals problems or
limitations [recorded in
[44]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/06-lld-minu
tes.html#action15]
<scribe> ACTION: GordonD and Antoine to study use cases that relate
to vocabulary merging use case [recorded in
[45]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/24-lld-minu
tes.html#action01] [DROPPED]
[45] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/24-lld-minutes.html#action01
<GordonD> +1
<scribe> ACTION: Alex, Jeff, Martin, MichaelP elaborate on general
purpose IT architecture for dealing with linked data with caching
feature [recorded in
[46]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/24-lld-minu
tes.html#action04] [CONTINUES]
[46] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/24-lld-minutes.html#action04
<Asaf> I think at least a link to some sketch on this should make it
into the report.
<scribe> ACTION: Jeff to write one or two paragraphs on VIAF design
discussions [recorded in
[47]http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-lld-minutes.html#action06]
[CONTINUES]
[47] http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-lld-minutes.html#action06
antoine: any other business?
__SILENCE__
<Asaf> Cheers.
<Marcia> bye
<AnetteS> bye!
<Marcia> thanks, Ray
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: Curators of archives and digital objects clusters to
take
[48]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Use_Case_NLL_Digitized
_Map_Archive [recorded in
[49]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/06-lld-minu
tes.html#action12]
[NEW] ACTION: kcoyle to see if cluster reveals problems or
limitations [recorded in
[50]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/06-lld-minu
tes.html#action15]
[NEW] ACTION: Mark and Emmanuelle to clean definition of value
vocabulary and use of attribute [recorded in
[51]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/06-lld-minu
tes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: GordonD to curate collection cluster [recorded in
[52]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/06-lld-minu
tes.html#action11]
[NEW] ACTION: TomB to link cluster pages to
[53]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/FinalReportOutline
[recorded in
[54]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/06-lld-minu
tes.html#action05]
[48] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Use_Case_NLL_Digitized_Map_Archive
[53] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/FinalReportOutline
[PENDING] ACTION: Antoine and Michael to curate vocabulary alignment
cluster for end of December [recorded in
[55]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minu
tes.html#action07]
[PENDING] ACTION: Jeff to write one or two paragraphs on VIAF
design discussions [recorded in
[56]http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-lld-minutes.html#action06]
[PENDING] ACTION: Uldis and Jodi to create social uses cluster
[recorded in
[57]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/12/16-lld-minu
tes.html#action03]
[PENDING] ACTION: Mark, Jodi, and Asaf to curate digital objects
cluster for end of December [recorded in [recorded in
[58]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minu
tes.html#action04]
[PENDING] ACTION: Gordon and Martin to curate bibliographic data
cluster for end of December [recorded in
[59]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minu
tes.html#action05]
[PENDING] ACTION: Alex, Jeff, Martin, MichaelP elaborate on general
purpose IT architecture for dealing with linked data with caching
feature [recorded in
[60]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/24-lld-minu
tes.html#action04]
[PENDING] ACTION: Jeff and Alexander to curate authority data
cluster for end of December [recorded in
[61]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minu
tes.html#action06]
[PENDING] ACTION: Karen and Emma to curate archive cluster for end
of December [recorded in
[62]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minu
tes.html#action02]
[DONE] ACTION: Mark to add these definitions to the wiki page
[recorded in
[63]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/12/16-lld-minu
tes.html#action01]
[DONE] ACTION: Monica and JISC colleagues to introduce and discuss
JISC work on next call [recorded in
[64]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/11/25-lld-minu
tes.html#action02]
[DROPPED] ACTION: GordonD and Antoine to study use cases that relate
to vocabulary merging use case [recorded in
[65]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/24-lld-minu
tes.html#action01]
[End of minutes]
_________________________________________________________
[55] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minutes.html#action07
[56] http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-lld-minutes.html#action06
[57] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/12/16-lld-minutes.html#action03
[59] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minutes.html#action05
[60] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/24-lld-minutes.html#action04
[61] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minutes.html#action06
[62] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minutes.html#action02
[63] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/12/16-lld-minutes.html#action01
[64] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/11/25-lld-minutes.html#action02
[65] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/24-lld-minutes.html#action01
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Received on Friday, 7 January 2011 03:56:38 UTC