- From: Antoine Isaac <aisaac@few.vu.nl>
- Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2011 14:58:24 +0200
- To: public-xg-lld <public-xg-lld@w3.org>
Hi everyone,
The minutes of our call today are at http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/04/21-lld-minutes.html
A text version follows.
Thanks again to Monica for scribing!
Cheers,
Antoine
====
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
LLD XG
21 Apr 2011
[2]Agenda
[2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011Apr/0047.html
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2011/04/21-lld-irc
Attendees
Present
antoine, monica, Tom_Baker, kcoyle, pmurray, rsinger, Jodi,
jeff_, kai, jneubert, marcia, edsu, michaelp, emma, uldis
Regrets
Gordon, Alexander, William, Kevin, Ray, Kim, Daniel
Chair
Antoine
Scribe
Monica
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]admin
2. [6]housecleaning
3. [7]FINAL REPORT
4. [8]REQUIREMENTS AND ISSUES
* [9]Summary of Action Items
_________________________________________________________
<antoine> Previous: 2011-04-14
[10]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/04/14-lld-minu
tes.html
[10] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/04/14-lld-minutes.html
<antoine> Scribe: Monica
<antoine> Scribenick: monica
<rsinger> TomB: i note you noting the benefits doc
admin
<Jodi> TomB: I guess you tried refreshing already?
<rsinger> somewhere other than the "developers" section?
RESOLVED: To accept
[11]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/04/14-lld-minu
tes.html
[11] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/04/14-lld-minutes.html
schedule of telcons
[12]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Telecons
[12] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Telecons
antoine: any comments?
<kai> +1 would have to send regrets otherwise :-)
<TomB> @rsinger - exited from the document - is there a URL for just
"viewing" the document?
<rsinger> TomB: i don't think you can just view it -- i'm not
editing now, so feel free to go back in
<TomB> @rsinger - gotta follow the discussion now... - will look at
it after the call
antoine:decided telcon on 28 is cancelled
antoine: Harry Halpin to introduce the newly-launched community
groups at W3C
... will enable inclusion with wider scope of participants
... e.g. library community
... we should have a couple of weeks to preprare
... any questions? now or on list
... we will know more once Harry has presented
<emma> Asia Pacific Telecon on April 28th
<pmurray> I can pick up scribing.
<rsinger> antoine: you got all echoey
<Jodi> yes, there's echo here now too
<kcoyle> yes, getting echo from you
<kcoyle> now it's gone
<TomB>
[13]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011Apr/0044.h
tml - Asia-Pacific call
[13] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011Apr/0044.html
<emma> TomB: Asia Pacific telecon will be on 27th / 28th april
<emma> ... 13 people expected
<emma> ... agenda will be simple : sections of the report,
<Jodi> Here's the fixed time for the telcon:
[14]http://timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=LLD&iso=201
10427T21&p1=224&ah=1
[14] http://timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=LLD&iso=20110427T21&p1=224&ah=1
<emma> ... open discussion during at least 20 minutes
<emma> ... please consider attending even if the time isn't
convenient, bridge is reserved for 20 or 25 people
FINAL REPORT
<scribe> ACTION: Digikim to update the transcluded version of the
report by Wed Apr 13 [recorded in
[15]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/04/07-lld-minu
tes.html#action06] [CONTINUES]
[15] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/04/07-lld-minutes.html#action06
Antoine: Kim not here today
Action --continues
<Jodi> (Kim just emailed us to say that the transclusion doesn't
make sense yet, and with regrets.)
scribe: Benefits
[16]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_Benefits
[16] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_Benefits
<scribe> ACTION: Cluster owners to check the bullet-point list in
[17]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_Benefits
reflects their understanding and covers relevant points [recorded in
[18]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/03/31-lld-minu
tes.html#action04]
[17] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_Benefits
[18] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/03/31-lld-minutes.html#action04
Antoine: there has only been one comment
<rsinger> i haven't
<emma> me neither
antoine: has there been any other feedback?
Ross: no
<TomB> +1 to drop the action
<rsinger> +1
<emma> +1
<pmurray> +1 -- action completed.
<rsinger> i mean, if they haven't responded yet
<rsinger> ...
ACTION CLOSED
<antoine> ACTION: Cluster owners to check the bullet-point list in
[19]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_Benefits
reflects their understanding and covers relevant points [recorded in
[20]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/03/31-lld-minu
tes.html#action04] [DONE]
[19] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_Benefits
[20] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/03/31-lld-minutes.html#action04
<rsinger> --<BOOM>
<scribe> ACTION: edsu, emma, rsinger to create narrative text and
add to bullet-points [recorded in
[21]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/03/31-lld-minu
tes.html#action05] [CONTINUES]
[21] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/03/31-lld-minutes.html#action05
<rsinger>
[22]https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vtVG2qAIiLAivwCGdqwNXubrnBpa
OPnK1ZKxxZAS8qk/edit?hl=en
[22] https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vtVG2qAIiLAivwCGdqwNXubrnBpaOPnK1ZKxxZAS8qk/edit?hl=en
ross: this has been started on the google doc
...any suggestions for how to boil down bullet points?
...this is all open for editing, but coming along
<TomB> ...sorry
<Zakim> TomB, you wanted to ask about the status of
[23]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011Apr/0044.h
tml and to ask about the status of
[24]http://piratepad.net/zsLh4nM3Pg
[23] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011Apr/0044.html
[24] http://piratepad.net/zsLh4nM3Pg
Tom: has this been copied over to the wiki?
Ross: yes
... we only need one more discussion to conclude the deliverable
Tom: as a liaison from issues group - we think there are some issues
that need to be introduced earlier
Ross: The double-edged sword of linked data?
Ross: To put out call on the mailing list
<edsu> rsinger++
Antoine: Relevant technologies
<scribe> ACTION: Jeff to create a wiki page on "Relevant Technology"
and link it to the report outline [recorded in
[25]http://www.w3.org/2011/04/14-lld-minutes.html#action05] [DONE]
[25] http://www.w3.org/2011/04/14-lld-minutes.html#action05
IJeff: library-specific technologies - we might be better able to
write tools if we knew our idioms better
Karen: what tools are we talking about - tools for programmers,
metadata developers (e.g. metadata registry)
<antoine> Discussion at
[26]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-lld/2011Apr/0072.html
[26] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-lld/2011Apr/0072.html
Karen: needs to address those 3 different activities
... by breaking it out this way it will point out where the gaps are
... Karen offers help with this if needed
Antoine: notes good progress on this, thanks
<scribe> ACTION: Alex, Jeff, Martin, MichaelP elaborate on general
purpose IT architecture for dealing with linked data with caching
feature (short sketch for final report) [recorded in
[27]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/24-lld-minu
tes.html#action04]
[27] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/24-lld-minutes.html#action04
Antoine: has the issue been addressed?
Jeff: yes e.g. caching difficult to layer in
... but software layering is reflected
<scribe> ACTION: Alex, Jeff, Martin, MichaelP elaborate on general
purpose IT architecture for dealing with linked data with caching
feature (short sketch for final report) [recorded in
[28]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/24-lld-minu
tes.html#action04] [DONE]
[28] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/24-lld-minutes.html#action04
Note on potential lld web services (Kevin, Joachim)
[29]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Web_services_on_LLD
[29] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Web_services_on_LLD
Antoine: this was on an action on Joachim to report on progress
Joachim: we have finished that action, have prepared the wiki page
... not so easy for people not acquainted with ?? to use RDF
... in lots of situation it is not so easy to provide technology
... example of use cases authority data
... similar services would support retrieval
Antoine: can this wiki page fit into the developing technologies
section?
... is it going in the same direction which Karen has described -
group into categories
<jeff_> +1
Antoine: could Joachim input into the categories
<TomB> +1 to boil down
joachim: currently too long, would need to be boiled down
... on holiday for 2 weeks, difficult to take the action to
co-ordinate
Antoine: could Kevin do it?
... no formal action recorded until we ask Kevin (Joachim to ask
him)
housecleaning
Antoine: skip
... due to time constraints
<kcoyle>
[30]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_recommendations_
page
[30] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_recommendations_page
REQUIREMENTS AND ISSUES
<Jodi> much better! :)
Karen: we have two pages linking to each other - issues and
recommendations
... the two pages are important because they become the results
<pmurray>
[31]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_issues_page
[31] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_issues_page
Karen: what we are saying is what needs to happen
... in the group we have talked about posting individual (or small
groups of related ones)
... so that people can comment on it
... an outline has already been written, on the wiki there is
another level of detail
... generally the recommendations and issues have been broken out
into 3 groups
... first group is managerial (education, costs)
... second group - moving library world out of its silo into a
future mindset of being collaborative
... not just with cultural heritage but at least some input from
general web community
... third category - library standards and practices change
... Any input?
<marcia> very good
<Zakim> TomB, you wanted to ask if we skipped the ACTION: Gordon and
Karen, under ISSUES
Tom: asking about the action on Karen and Gordon
Karen: I need to check and look at it again
... keep the action for now
<Zakim> emma, you wanted to ask about duplication of effort
(Management)
Emma: wondering if this is missing: issue of national libraries
coordinating effort
... is there a role to manage duplicates
Karen: there is wording on de-duplication but your point is about
not duplicating the effort
emma: also need to consider the costs
<TomB>
[32]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_issues_page#Libr
ary_data_is_highly_redundant_but_lacks_global_identifiers_to_aid_in_
de-duplication
[32] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_issues_page#Library_data_is_highly_redundant_but_lacks_global_identifiers_to_aid_in_de-duplication
emma: that would be a management issue
<pmurray> There is mention in the recommendation about agreement on
identifiers, which is a form of coordination.
Karen: that appears to be a co-ordination issue e.g. how to find out
that software already exists, encourage open source etc
... also one thing we don't have here is something about discovery:
of software, vocabularies Is this management?
<pmurray>
[33]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_recommendations_
page#Identify_vocabularies_that_are_needed_to_support_the_creation_a
nd_use_of_LLD_.5BJS.5D
[33] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_recommendations_page#Identify_vocabularies_that_are_needed_to_support_the_creation_and_use_of_LLD_.5BJS.5D
Karen: or third section
... is this a high-level point? do all the sharing so we don't
duplicate effort?
Tom: the patterns will point to the vocabularies
... thereis a danger in people just using search engines that focus
on vocabularies
... could lead people to use vocabularies in patterns that do not
match usage patterns
... I want to encourage discovery in the context of usage pattern,
best practice
... there are different styles for documenting patterns and the
community has no agreed way to document patterns
Ed: we want to encourage good patterns and findability of
vocabularies
Tom: it is also important to put vocabularies in context e.g. used
more in this community
<Jodi> in a way, you have to be in contact with the community that
uses a vocabulary in order to understand how it is used...
Tom: there is overlap and proliferation of vocabularies, alignment
of vocabularies are needed otherwise new vocabularies will be used
in the absence of mapping
Karen: vocabulary alignment is one of the recommendations
Tom: make them stronger
Karen: agrees
Ed: agrees
Jeff: wanted to mention ontology mapping we can still be
interoperable without prescribing you must do it this way
<TomB> ontology mapping = alignments
Karen: experience from library world is that people standardise and
share rather than re-invent or grab random things
<antoine> +1
<jeff_> +1
Karen: more concerned about silos - we need to break out of these
<TomB> note to self: make sure we use the phrase "RDF silo" in this
section
<kcoyle>
[34]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_issues_page
[34] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_issues_page
<Jodi> TomB: currently it's in
[35]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_recommendations_
page#Linking_by_use_of_vocabularies
[35] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_recommendations_page#Linking_by_use_of_vocabularies
Karen: to all please make sure that your issues are included here,
if issues are not in the issues page they will not show up in the
recommendations
... check they are present and expressed as strongly as you think is
needed
<TomB> @jodi - ah, I thought it was there somewhere - thanks!
Antoine: we have use case owners to check the issues list
Karen: if people find anything missing, it is not too late to add to
it
... not exactly another round, but we need these two pages to be
representing the best of our thinking on this topic
... it is important that everyone in the group feels good about
these pages
<Zakim> TomB, you wanted to point out that this is why we want to
push the individual points out to the mailing list one-by-one for
comments
Tom: same point that Karen made, this is why we want to push out
individual points in digestable pieces and get comments
Karen: which mailing list?
<pmurray> I think the community (public) list, too.
Antoine: would there be overwhelming response?
Karen: does anyone feel that we should not?
<pmurray> But when we use the public list, we diminish the chance of
someone saying "you didn't listen to me!"
<edsu> +1 for using community list
Antoine: if you wish to do it does not object
<Zakim> emma, you wanted to ask about training/education
Emma: training, education there a number of things in the issues and
recommendations
... wondered if we should be more specific on who needs training in
the library professionals. everyone?
... just cataloguers?
... very difficult to say
... who does it make sense to train?
<pmurray> I think understanding the principles is important for
everyone, but training about the mechanics isn't needed by everyone.
<TomB> +1 good question on who needs to be trained
Karen: right now we are at a point that we do not have much to show
to people e.g. at the reference desk e.g. would not want to show
them formats
<TomB> "training the decision-makers" :-)
Emma: everyone needs to understand benefits
Karen: do we think training needs to be tailored to needs
<Zakim> Jodi, you wanted to mention recommendations are likely to be
most read after executive report
Jodi: one reason we wanted comments on recommendations/issues was
that they are most likely to be read, after the executive report
Jeff: : by making each of the recommendations tweakable - should we
make a 120 character limit?
<edsu> lol (on mute)
laughter
<TomB> @pmurray lol
<Jodi> monica: most likely to be read, after the executive report
Antoine: : any other business?
<Jodi> bye!
Summary of Action Items
[DONE] ACTION: Alex, Jeff, Martin, MichaelP elaborate on general
purpose IT architecture for dealing with linked data with caching
feature (short sketch for final report) [recorded in
[36]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/24-lld-minu
tes.html#action04]
[DONE] ACTION: Cluster owners to check the bullet-point list in
[37]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_Benefits
reflects their understanding and covers relevant points [recorded in
[38]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/03/31-lld-minu
tes.html#action04]
[CONTINUES] ACTION: Digikim to update the transcluded version of the
report by Wed Apr 13 [recorded in
[39]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/04/07-lld-minu
tes.html#action06]
[CONTINUES] ACTION: edsu, emma, rsinger to create narrative text and
add to bullet-points [recorded in
[40]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/03/31-lld-minu
tes.html#action05]
[36] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/24-lld-minutes.html#action04
[37] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_Benefits
[38] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/03/31-lld-minutes.html#action04
[39] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/04/07-lld-minutes.html#action06
[40] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/03/31-lld-minutes.html#action05
[DONE] ACTION: Jeff to create a wiki page on "Relevant Technology"
and link it to the report outline [recorded in
[41]http://www.w3.org/2011/04/14-lld-minutes.html#action05]
[41] http://www.w3.org/2011/04/14-lld-minutes.html#action05
[End of minutes]
_________________________________________________________
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Received on Friday, 22 April 2011 12:56:48 UTC