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LLD XG MINUTES 2010/09/23

From: William Waites <william.waites@okfn.org>
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 09:57:16 +0100
Message-ID: <4CA1ADEC.7010206@okfn.org>
To: public-xg-lld <public-xg-lld@w3.org>
For the list archives, apologies for the delay in posting
these, I have been travelling.




                                LLD XG

23 Sep 2010



   See also: [3]IRC log

      [3] http://www.w3.org/2010/09/23-lld-irc


          emma, TomB, pmurray, jeff, ww, GordonD, bvatant, antoine,
          AlexanderH, digikim, michaelp, rsinger, jneubert, Asaf,
          kcoyle, marcia, Kai, edsu, matolat, kefo

          Ray, Annette, Felix, Lars, Monica, Oreste




     * [4]Topics
         1. [5]Admin
         2. [6]Face to face meetings
         3. [7]use cases and use case studies
         4. [8]lod discussion
         5. [9]wiki pages for capturing relevant links and ideas
         6. [10]upcoming topics
         7. [11]any other business?
     * [12]Summary of Action Items

      [4] http://www.w3.org/2010/09/23-lld-minutes.html#agenda

   <TomB> rssagent, bookmark

   hooray! the +44 number answers today!

   Zakim: ??P6 is me

   Zakim mute me

   <TomB> Scribe: ww

   <TomB> Scribenick: ww

   <edsu> zoia, [LC] is edsu


   TomB: accept minutes of previous meeting? comments?

   RESOLUTION: Accept previous minutes

Face to face meetings

   Tomb: meeting being prepared for friday oct. 22nd
   ... have posted links recently, can discuss either in dc
   architecture mailing list or lld list
   ... logistics
   ... have a data projector thanks to jeff from oclc
   ... jeff is also willing to bring microphone and speakers, simple,
   doesn't have anything better
   ... tomb thinks that because of size of meeting is suboptimal but it
   would work, unless somebody has better equipment

   <kcoyle> what type of mic and speaker s does he have?

   Tomb: idea is to have a wireless link to zakim, remote participants
   ... remote participants would need to be able to hear as well as
   possible, those physically present would need to be able to hear any

   <Marcia> I may bring some as backup

   Tomb: by default we'll just jeff's gear, but if anybody has anything
   better it would be great, please get in touch with one of the chairs
   ... in the meantime thanks to jeff for offering to bring this basic

   <Marcia> do you need a notepad?

   Tomb: Fact to face meeting, there is a draft agenda with expected
   ... spend some time looking at this agenda and flesh it out

   <emma> Draft agenda :


   Tomb: three more teleconferences before the meeting
   ... by oct 14th, the meeting before, we should have a complete
   agenda with everything people should read to prepare, with names of
   who is going to be leading each discussion



   PROPOSAL: look at both the topic list and the agenda and walk
   ... saturday we want to start at 9 and go through until 6:30 because
   some people won't be able to stay over until sunday
   ... that gives us five sections of 1-1.5 hour
   ... morning of saturday 9 - 12:30 devoted to use cases
   ... use cases could be clustered by topic or type
   ... look at each case, discuss, toward the end of the session reach
   some generalisations about the use cases and plan the writing of the

   <kcoyle> yes

   PROPOSAL: by the time we finish the first two sections we'll have a
   clear idea of what should be done in order to ...

   jeff_: last week someone mentioned adding viaf
   ... there is a use case for it, should it fold into the use case
   discussions or should it be broken out somehow

   TomB: why would it not be a use case?

   jeff_: it very well could...

   <antoine> @Jeff: could you deal with the creators of the use case
   and fit more explicit mention to VIAF?

   kcoyle: if we had a use case we could take as much time as we need
   to look at it in that section of the meeting
   ... seems to me topic list is broader than use cases and we will
   look at use cases in relation to topics
   ... so maybe the topic discussion has to be first

   TomB: we thought of this...

   kcoyle: my mind it could be topic first, but could go either way

   antoine: easier if we have concrete examples before going to the
   topic list

   kcoyle: has anyone done an analysis of looking at use cases and
   topic list and looking at the gaps?
   ... topics for which we don't have a use case, are there use cases
   for which we don't have a topic

   <antoine> +1

   <Asaf> +1

   kcoyle: should do this before the meeting because we may want to
   fill in

   <emma> +1 too

   TomB: in the next three calls we should do this, try to cluster

   emma: idea that we need to gather the use cases according to the
   topics so that we can analyse them as a group because we may not
   have time to discuss them individually

   <kcoyle> +1

   emma: so we need to gather them in a bundle and then discuss them

   <Asaf> I'm willing to help.

   <kcoyle> I can do that

   emma: would like to do it but not alone, would like help

   <GordonD> I can assist

   <Marcia> I could

   <bvatant> I can help too

   <scribe> ACTION: emma, kcoyle, GordonD, Marcia, bvatant to structure
   the discussion of use cases in light of the topic list [recorded in

   TomB: movng onto the afternoon
   ... afternoon could be the time that we look at the topics that do
   not fall into a use case and take a broader look at the topic list
   ... picturing that the optic list would provide the overall
   framework for that discussion
   ... hoping that we will have had a good discussion on friday about
   application profiles, that we could come to some conclusions
   ... next few weeks would be a good time to go through the topic list
   ... who has expressed interest in which topics
   ... sequence in which we would like to deal with these topics in
   ... in the last hour be very specific about what deliverables
   ... and who is going to be responsible for writing the deliverables
   ... anyone have ideas about how we might approach this

   emma: just a suggestion, is in the draft agenda
   ... topic discussion could be moved on sunday morning because we
   might not have connection to zakim on sunday so we might take this
   topic which is harder to follow online anyway to sunday

   TomB: which topic/

   emma: going through the list of topics, list of topics, who is
   interested in what... i thought we would want to do that on sunday

   <GordonD> There are several topics for discussion embedded in the
   Library standards and linked data wiki page - no need to duplicate
   as use cases? but should be on the f2f meeting agenda, say Saturday

   emma: but maybe its not important if we do it on saturday afternoon,
   but we have to keep in mind that we may not have same connection

   <Asaf> I thought going over the topics, whi is interested in what
   etc. was for the "next few weeks", not the conf. itself?

   TomB: what discuss sat aft?

   emma: vocabularies, where gordon was reporting on library standards

   <GordonD> The topic cluster group (just formed) could fold the
   Library standards topics into the use-case clusters

   emma: lot of issues, not only relevant to standards, relevant to
   vocabularies in general
   ... if we ask people which vocabularies they are using in their use
   cases, this could be an interesting starting point for discussion

   <TomB> +1 on discussing vocabularies on Saturday afternoon

   TomB: sound fine to me

   GordonD: just texted a couple of suggestions if you read up on the
   ... just echoing what emma's just said, there's stuff in the library
   standards doc that needs to be included
   ... fold into agenda, or more usefully fold into topic clusters

   TomB: thought they would be folded in topic discussion
   ... but like the idea of looking of vocabularies in use cases and
   looking at them one by one
   ... trying to generalise and about the isues related to these
   vocabularies in the way that gordon has done in the piece that he

   <GordonD> +1

   TomB: so to consolidate some of those issues having to do with
   bounded or unbounded properties that sort of thing, design issues
   that specific vocabularies but of interest to vocabularies
   ... gordon does that cover your points?

   GordonD: in fact i suggested saturday afternoon as well so i think
   we are in agreement

   TomB: any other comments on saturday?
   ... some people have to leave on saturday
   ... sunday morning we won't have zakim so we'll have to brainstorm
   the old fasioned way
   ... any other issues to discuss for sunday?
   ... i think that covers what i wanted to get hte ball rolling on for
   the meeting in pittsburgh
   ... we need to push this forward in the next three calls
   ... and turn this into an agenda where we have links to everything
   that needs to be read and a rough idea of the sequence
   ... ifrst priority use case
   ... feeds into discussion of vocabularies
   ... progress in the next week on structuring use case part of the
   meeting that would be great
   ... on the basis of that start look at structuring the afternoon
   ... not worried about structirng the sunday morning session, we'll
   have plenty to talk about

   antoine: just to clarify there was a question from asaf on the
   channel about the action on the topic list in which he thought that
   going over the topics was for the next few weeks not for the f2f
   itself, just want to remind everyone to have a look to the topic
   list so they can make comments or put their names there

   <Asaf> Thanks, Antoine.

   antoine: so that we can be as prepared as possible

   kcoyle: administrative, do you have a style for assigning scribe
   duty for these meetings

   TomB: have rotating scribe list that has been taking shape, when
   someboday scribes their name goes to the bottom of the list

   kcoyle: i was thinking about the face to face meeting, seems to me
   that beforehand we want to assign someone,
   ... for sunday where there's no wireless want to make sure that
   somebody has all the documents on them

   TomB: good point. will make sure that we assign... an hour and a
   half is a long time to scribe, sort of on the border line... we'lll
   take a look on the last call before the meeting to see who will be
   available, make sure we have a designated laptop and that all the
   documents we need are on it

use cases and use case studies

   TomB: the use cases are coming in
   ... all of the use cases are being linked to htis wiki page called
   ... would someone like to comment on these/


   antoine: yeah i can just briefly comment on the fact that the
   UseCases page has been edited a bit.
   ... i moved some of the process information onto another wiki page,
   based on a suggestion by you, so that we have something that is not
   polluted by previous suggestions when we want to discuss the use
   cases themselves


   TomB: nothing else on this this week

   <Asaf> quick note: I'll be contributing a use-case for Project

lod discussion

wiki pages for capturing relevant links and ideas

   TomB: any comments on status and how they're shaping up?
   ... for example library technology explained
   ... emma how libray standards are related

   emma: i think we probably.. .there is a need to have some material
   that you can reuse for presentations, that was the idea that was
   intended in the beginning
   ... just checking
   ... in the presentation page we were trying to find all the
   interesting presentations that we had on libraries and linked data
   ... this is useful, but when i'm building a resentation i go to this
   page and use the material, but i'm not sure if i can reuse it
   ... we have gathered a lot of presentations, but i would suggest we
   move it forward, to identify what is really useful, what has been
   tested and what is missing

   <Marcia> Will SKOSified vocabulary cases be counted?

   emma: a suggestion, i know karen was more ore less in charge of

   <Asaf> re re-use: presentations should have clear license
   information (CC etc.)

   TomB: good topic for sunday morning
   ... maybe clarify permission to reuse... license, creative commons

   <antoine> Be careful with discussing online material on sunday

   <kai> +1 for CC license

   emma: or maybe contact the authors

   kcoyle: seems to me one of the things tomb and i had talked about
   was developing actual graphics that are available to pepople
   ... perhaps after we have gone over the topic list we could look at
   the topics and see which ones need illustrations

   <pmurray> Are there governing guidelines from W3C that would specify
   licensing terms?

   kcoyle: then either develop illustrations we could put a CC license
   on it, or see if we could find illustrations that could be reused,
   contact the authors

   <antoine> +1

   TomB: i actually put some slides in that have some illustrations



   TomB: these slides here have some illustrations along the lines of
   what i'd like to see more of
   ... things that make it graphicall yclear that triples are the
   expression of arcs in a graph
   ... and that all of those are statements
   ... graphics that get people really thinking about seeing how a
   graph is constructed out of statements
   ... and how its all encoded in triples and how it could be encoded
   in different syntaxes
   ... i would be interested in looking at those slides for example,
   and thinking about whether we could improve on the graphics...
   ... and find a way, specifically for lld, to leverage some of the
   existing other vocabularies
   ... find some examples that make these connections clear to people

   <Zakim> emma, you wanted to suggest new members introduce themselves

   emma: complete other topic
   ... to suggest that the new members could introduce themselves
   ... there are three of them

   TomB: on my list to do in last few minutes of the call

   <Zakim> antoine, you wanted to continue action on topics

   emma: let me add that they shouldn't be shy to come into the queue
   and talk
   ... so feel free!

   antoine: something that goes later because we forgot to continue an

   TomB: action on everyone to contribute to the topic list?

   antoine: yes

upcoming topics

   TomB: don't thinkg there's anything we need to say... placeholders

any other business?

   <Asaf> right

   TomB: three new participants, Asaf, would you like to say a few

   <pmurray> +q to introduce myself.

   <Asaf> +q

   Asaf: i'm interested in lld because i'm the editor and software
   designed for a digital library called project ben-yehuda
   ... it's a public domain repository of hebrew texts
   ... unlike gutenberg our items are individual stories, poems, etc.
   unlike "book"
   ... interested in a rich catalog because many of our works discuss
   each other
   ... very keen about having rich semantic relations in our internal
   ... in addition, sharing our metadata
   ... hebrew libraries use book data, e.g. marc
   ... concern is to share rich metadata and in the future benefit from
   others sharing....


   Asaf: for example, we have a translation of Romeo and Juliet and
   want a universal identifier for shakespeare and the work,
   ... so that i can tie in to it...

   TomB: welcome
   ... Kevin, this is your first call as a member?
   ... Peter?

   pmurray: assistant director of lyr?

   <rsinger> ww++ # you're doing great!

   <rsinger> lyrasis

   pmurray: academic libraries for east coast of united states...
   ... 3000 member libraries
   ... interest in linked data to enhance discovery services
   ... particularly interested, working witha collegue Ron Murray at
   ... to instill aspects of FRBR into library bibliographic data
   ... turn the marc data inside out
   ... to be a graph of links between entities
   ... that this w3c wg got started was right along the lines that i
   was thinking working with him
   ... happy to be a part of this

   TomB: other newcomers?
   ... further business?
   ... we are actually allowed to finish early
   ... so let's adjourn this meeting and talk next week
   ... thank you ery much

   <marma> bye

   <matolat> -matolat

   <matolat> quit

   <TomB> [adjourned]

   <TomB> ACTION: Everyone to elaborate on topics in the wiki [recorded
   in [recorded in


   <TomB> --continues

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: emma, kcoyle, GordonD, Marcia, bvatant to structure
   the discussion of use cases in light of the topic list [recorded in

   [PENDING] ACTION: Everyone to elaborate on topics in the wiki
   [recorded in


   [End of minutes]

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William Waites           <william.waites@okfn.org>
Mob: +44 789 798 9965    Open Knowledge Foundation
Fax: +44 131 464 4948                Edinburgh, UK

RDF Indexing, Clustering and Inferencing in Python
Received on Tuesday, 28 September 2010 08:59:34 UTC

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