- From: Antoine Isaac <aisaac@few.vu.nl>
- Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 16:58:47 +0200
- To: Kai Eckert <eckert@bib.uni-mannheim.de>
- CC: public-xg-lld <public-xg-lld@w3.org>
Hi Kai, Thanks for the link and for the clarification on your approach! Indeed I agree that "beautification" of the template can happen once we've tested it further with first UCs. Antoine > Hi Antoine, > > sure, we don't want to exclude anyone. Our discussions can not be > transferred to the list, as we discussed almost everything so far during > telephone conferences. This is the luxury of a small sub-task-group :-) > > Internally, we use Google docs to work on the example use case, which > contains at the same time the template, as we think it fits best our needs. > > Here is the link to this document, for everyone who is interested: > https://docs.google.com/document/edit?id=1ZBPvrneFU72gyieSHGPB6Rm0jVmjk-GdUg0nBI1iW24&hl=en&authkey=CMD1jYUL > > A second use case is currently prepared by Emmanuelle and should be > available tomorrow as a first draft. > > Note, that this is really *work in progress*. We try not to discuss > everything, but just provide some real-world examples that help us to > discuss the result afterwards in the whole XG. > > So in this sense, I would encourage people not to discuss the template > at the current state on an abstract level, but, if they want to jump in, > give us a short example use case where the template would NOT fit. Then, > we can try to incorporate it. This is exactly the approach that we try > to follow with our current examples. > > Regards, > > Kai > > Antoine Isaac schrieb: >> Hi Kai, >> >> >> >>> Alexander, Emmanuelle and I are currently working on the template. So I >>> summarize our findings >> >> >> Don't hesitate to discuss all this openly on public-xg-lld! Most often >> it will be very useful if someone else can jump in on a specific point >> you're discussing. Plus, it gives everyone the comfortable feeling that >> something is happening :-) >> >> >>> and try to bring them in line with your suggestions: >>> >>>> Re. feedback on the content of the template, my most important comment >>>> concerns the use of the "dimensions" at [3] in the sections of the use >>>> case template [1]. >>>> My first understanding of the "library linked data dimension" section, >>>> based on the "dimensions" of the Prov XG [4] initially there [5], is >>>> that this section would be rather technical, implementation-driven. In >>>> fact, to me the examples for filling the "library linked data dimension" >>>> section should come from the "topics" that we assembled over the past >>>> weeks (now at [6]). [4] is really closer from [6] than it is from [3]. >>> >>> You are right. I also tend to use the topics list (maybe a somewhat >>> cleaned/shortened version) as dimensions (and maybe just call it topics >>> ;-)). >> >> :-) >> I think whatever we opt for we need some context for disambiguation. >> Which is why in my mail I always tried to use *use case* dimensions for >> [3] and *library linked data* topics for [6]. I'm not sure this wording >> is optimal, but at least it helps me... >> >> >>> Or we use both. But as I said on the phone conference, I don't >>> think that the dimensions/topics are THAT important. >>> >>> For me there are two reasons for them: They can help *use case >>> providers* to think about the broad field of library topics and to find >>> interesting use cases related to these topics. And they can help *us* >>> after the gathering of use cases to organize the use cases and maybe to >>> identify topics/dimensions with missing use cases. >> >> >> Yes, that's also what I envision for them. Even though a UC contributor >> outside the XG may still pick some LLD dimensions from our topic list, >> or even add one. We know that there are pretty smart people out there, >> too--which is why we want them to contribute ;-) >> >> >>> For the former, we have to be careful that we do not restrict the use >>> case providers with too narrow topics, so I assume that we need either >>> an open list or at least a "misc." topic. >> >> >> +1. Feel free to employ whatever trick--it could just be an introductory >> sentence for the section to be filled... >> >> >>> For the latter, we can always extend, reorganize or refine the list >>> afterwards, as this only affects our own organization of the use cases. >> >> >> Cf. my comment above. If we have a list of topic UC contributors can >> use, why not offering them? >> Of course we can still change the organization afterwards. If just to >> take into account the new items which will have popped out by that time... >> >> >>> So I suggest to provide a link to the dimensions/topics in the template >>> and encourage the providers to think about them and choose one or more >>> of them to characterize their use case but in the same time also allow >>> them to suggest a new topic or just let the field empty if they feel not >>> comfortable with it. >> >> >> Yes! >> >> >>>> Now, I think the point on which we fundamentally agree (and which may >>>> explain the above disagreement ;-) ) is that *the "use case dimensions" >>>> at [3] should stimulate something that comes before what the "linked >>>> data topics" at [6] would stimulate*. >>>> The more I look at it, the more I wonder why the Prov XG had put their >>>> "provenance dimensions" before their "goal" and "use case scenario". I >>>> can see a logic here, but it's one of someone with a quite clear view on >>>> the domain's technical points--the Prov XG provided the UCs >>>> themselves--not necessarily the one of a true application owner (i.e., >>>> "business"-oriented). >>> >>> That is indeed the case, but I would not overestimate the actual >>> position of the section within the template. I think (I was not involved >>> in the template development of prov-xg), it could be due to such a >>> simple reason as just to have it on top of each use case so that you can >>> easily classify a use case when you look at it. >> >> >> Yes, I see the point. That could be something that we could have *after* >> having gathered and curated the UCs. >> >> >>>> I would thus suggest to have the following order: >>>> 1. Name; 2. Owner; 3. Background and Current Practice; 4. Goal; 5. Use >>>> Case Scenario [suggesting the use case dimensions at [3]); 6. Problems >>>> and Limitations; 7. Library Linked Data Dimensions (pointing to the >>>> topics at [6]; 8 Unanticipated Uses (optional); 9 Existing Work >>>> (optional) >>>> >>> >>> Currently we have the following (without dimensions and topics): 1. >>> Name, 2. Owner, 3. Background and Current Practice, 4. Goal, 5. Use Case >>> Scenario, 6. Existing Work (Optional), 7. Related Vocabularies >>> (Optional), 8. Problems and Limitations, 9. Related Use Cases and >>> Unanticipated Uses (optional), 10. References (Optional) >>> >>> The rationale is, that we expect some use cases (like around VIAF, our >>> current example), that are already more or less implemented and so the >>> existing work is very important for the description. But we still want >>> to separate it from the actual use case, so we need the own section. The >>> same holds for the vocabularies, of course we are interested in >>> vocabularies in use or existing vocabularies that could be used in the >>> described use case. >> >> >> OK. Maybe you could use the latter vocabulary re-use example as a hint >> for the "unanticipated re-use" section. I was in trouble figuring out >> what could appear there, until you pointed out the obvious here :-) >> >> >>> The Problems and Limitations section is then open for all kind of >>> problems, depending on the contents of the previous sections. From >>> general problems arrising from the use case itself, over technical >>> issues with existing implementations to problems or weaknesses of the >>> vocabularies involved. >>> >>> The Related Use Cases and Unanticipated Uses is also used to help us >>> organize the use cases and also to stimulate further use cases from the >>> unanticipated uses. >> >> >> I'm not really sure this will bring a lot of material, but it would be a >> pity to miss any opportunity, sure. >> >> >>>> This could have the benefit of illustrating the natural complementarity >>>> between "problems and limitations" and "LLD dimensions". For many of the >>>> Prov XG's use cases, I feel that it is the informal gathering of >>>> problems that leads to the more formal identifications of the >>>> dimensions. >>> >>> >>> You are right, I just checked that in the prov-xg wiki. They *first* had >>> a set of use cases, *then* they created the list of dimensions and >>> included the dimensions section in the template. >> >> >> OK! >> >> >>>> Would people around here agree? >>> >>> I would agree to put it at the end, but after the related use cases and >>> unanticipated use cases. I would explain to the providers that they >>> *can* relate their use case to an existing topic *and/or* an existing >>> dimension, but they don't have to. They also can suggest other topics >>> and dimensions, if they want. >>> >>> At the same time, I would put a link to them in the introduction, to >>> help people think about possible use cases, but also emphasize that they >>> should not restrict themselves to this list. >>> >>> The actual organization of the use cases and the relation to the topics >>> and dimensions, alternatively the extraction of them out of the provided >>> use cases is the job of our xg members, when they curate the use cases. >> >> >> I agree with the idea of pointer, and to have it in the intro or as a >> separate closing section for the current "LLD topics". But for the UC >> dimensions [3] I would really put the corresponding pointer in the "use >> case scenario" section, where it can help users most. >> >> In fact the sentence and pointer which is currently in the "LLD"section [7] >> [The current dimensions list [3] suggests various categories of needs, >> resources, systems, and assets that might be invoked in use-cases, but >> should be considered a starting place rather than exhaustive. >> ] >> could be put as such in the "use case scenario" section which has the >> current sentence: >> [The use case scenario itself, described as a story in which actors >> interact with systems, each other etc. It should show who is using >> linked data technology and for what purpose. ] >> >> [7] >> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/index.php?title=UCTemplate1&oldid=229#Library_Linked_Data_Dimensions >> >> >> >>>> But as said it is indeed much less important, and I realize I've already >>>> written one page on the order of the sections of the template alone so >>>> I'll stop here :-) >>> >>> And now I added even more text, sorry :-) >>> >>> I think we will be ready with a new template *and* two or three examples >>> how they could be filled in with actual content until the end of the >>> week. I suggest that we wait for that and then reopen the discussion >>> again. But I think we are now converging towards a really acceptable >>> solution, so hopefully there will be not much more to discuss. :-) >> >> >> Agreed! So feel free to ignore my comments on the wording and ordering >> for the coming days, even if I belive they're cheap to implement. >> Anyway, be sure I'll come back with this mail later if needed ;-) >> >> Cheers, >> >> Antoine >> >>> >>>> [1] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/UCTemplate1 >>>> [2] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/UCRationale >>>> [3] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Dimensions >>>> [4] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/wiki/Provenance_Dimensions >>>> [5] >>>> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/index.php?title=UCTemplate1&oldid=86#Linked_Data_Dimensions >>>> >>>> >>>> [6] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Topics3 >>>> >>>> >> >> >> >
Received on Tuesday, 13 July 2010 14:59:22 UTC