Draft minutes 18 November 2010

Group,

The draft minutes for our call yesterday can be found at http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-htmlspeech-minutes.html 
.
Please let me know of any needed corrections or additions.

For convenience, a text version is below.

-- dan

===============================

Attendees

    Present
           Bjorn_Bringert, Dan_Burnett, marc, Olli_Pettay, Milan_Young,
           Michael_Bodell, Satish_Sampath, Debbie_Dahl, Raj_Tumuluri,
           Dan_Druta, Robert_Brown

    Regrets
    Chair
           Dan Burnett

    Scribe
           Milan, Dan_Burnett

Contents

      * [4]Topics
          1. [5]R26
          2. [6]R28
          3. [7]R8
      * [8]Summary of Action Items
      _________________________________________________________

    <burn> scribe: Milan

    <burn> ScribeNick: Milan

    Dan: Any concerns with last week's minutes?

    All: None

    Dan: Le's finish up req 18

    <mbodell>
    [9]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-htmlspeech/2010Nov/
    0096.html

       [9] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-htmlspeech/2010Nov/0096.html

    Michael: Remaining Issue is about the codec

    <burn> milan: want local implementations but know it is unpopular

    <burn> milan: or at least well-defined remote protocol

    <burn> michael: agreed on the latter, and already addressed via our
    newest requirements

    <burn> milan: want a new requirement about eventing

    <burn> bjorn: already added last week

    <burn> milan: is this part of the protocol?

    <burn> robert: yes, we imply that protocol must support these
    requirements

    <burn> milan: anything in protocol that will define the session, eg
    cookies?

    <burn> robert: this is premature to discuss.

    <burn> milan: need to require way to indicate session

    Thanks Dan!

    I'll pickup soon

    <burn> robert: right. may need to add something

    <burn> robert: may need some logging capability as well

    <burn> bjorn: we already added parameter passing requirement. can
    use other mechanisms to do logging (eg xmlhttprequest)

    <burn> robert: regarding local reco engines, can require that it
    shoudl offer same functionality as we would get from this protocol

    <burn> bjorn: isn't that implied already?

    <mbodell> FPR11 could have text to say parameters include session
    information and logging strings

    <burn> milan: local app could integrate using remote protocol

    <burn> bjorn: yes, but could also implement directly without using
    the protocol

    Dan: If these are new requirements, we should do this by email

    Michael: Can we agree on the codec piece?

    <mbodell> candidaye text: There should be at least one
    mandatory-to-support codec that isn't encumbered with IP issues and
    has sufficient fidelity & low bandwidth requirements

    Dan: IP issues could get sticky, but OK for now

    <mbodell> s/standard/stadard/

    There should be at least one mandatory to support codec that isn't
    encumbered with IP issues and has sufficient fidelity & low
    bandwidth requirements

    All: agreement

    Michael: #7 - Sounds like we have consensus

    <mbodell> requirement: Web application must be able to specify
    domain specific custom grammars.

    All: agreed

    <mbodell> new requirement for R5: Web application must be notified
    when speech recognition errors and non-matches occur.

    <burn> milan: are we considering non-reco errors as well?

    <burn> milan: missing grammar and nomatches are different

    <burn> michael: intent is to be notified on anything that isn't a
    match in addition to matches

    Milan: Suggest Michael's statment added to discription

    All: agreed

    <mbodell> new requirement: (text description include intent and no
    input and no matches and errors)

    Michael: Consensus over email to drop this requirement

    All: agreed

    <burn> requirement we just agreed to drop was #30

    <mbodell> candidate text for R26: There should exist a high quality
    default visual user interface for the speech recognition

R26

    <bringert> "User agents must provide a default interface to control
    speech recognition."

    Bjorn: We had consensus on different wording

    All: Agreed with Bjorn's wording

R28

    Michael: General consent to update requirment to require explicit
    consent if local capture takes place

    <mbodell> new requirement: web app should be given captured audio
    access only after explicit consent from the user

    All: Agreed

    <burn> unagreed

    Bjorn: This wording suggests that UAs are required to provide audio

    <burn> milan: why shouldn't it be required?

    <burn> bjorn: haven't discussed required yet

    Debbie: Are there other ways in which media may be captured? What
    about other methods?

    Michael: Uncomfortable with the word raw because it doesn't cover
    codec modifications

    <ddahl> we can't prevent raw audio capture in general because e.g.
    Media Capture API can also capture audio

    All: agreed

R8

    <mbodell> original requirement: Web application must be able to
    specify language of recognition

    Michae: Several questions on this one (Milan missed these)

    Robert: Use cases are vauge

    Bjorn: Drop down in web app to select language, and then user speaks
    in that language

    Michael: Is this an example of a parameter in the protocol?

    <burn> bjorn: this is more than a parameter

    <burn> bjorn: this has applicability beyond reco-specific params

    Micahel: Will be both standard parameters and implementation
    specific params

    Dan: Are we talking about this specific req, or more general topic
    about the kinds of information for web-app to send to recognizer

    <burn> bjorn: this is a regular parameter, but it's important enough
    to call it out in the requirements

    <burn> michael: and the mechanism for specifying it is still TBD

    <burn> bjorn/michael: suggest that any parameter that anyone
    believes is important be sent as separate reqirement so we can
    discuss

    <burn> general agreement that this requirement is okay as-is

    <burn> marc: does this cover synthesis as well?

    <burn> michael/bjorn: no. should send separately for tts

    <mbodell> new requirement: Web application must be able to specify
    language of synthesis.

    Dan: Objections?

    All: None. Agreed

    Bjorn: Other aspect was wehther web-apps could query list of
    supported langs
    ... Web apps should get a list of supported languages

    <mbodell> bjorn suggested additionally: Web apps should have access
    to a list of the languages supported by the current speech service
    implementations.

    <marc> I think Olli's comment is here:
    [10]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-htmlspeech/2010Nov
    /0108.html

      [10] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-htmlspeech/2010Nov/0108.html

    Olli: Some sort of comment regarding mobile devices

    <Raj> yes

    Olli: This could lead to fingerprinting

    Robert: Unclear which service UA would be querying

    Michael: If choice is missing, should return an error or make best
    effort

    Dan: Similar to conflict in SSML

    Robert: Might be nice to have en-* be a fallback to en-AU

    Dan: Came up with a mechanism in SSML to select which traits were
    most important in selection
    ... Basically a priority ordering
    ... This is just one option. Could specify there is no substitution
    ... Did this because didn't want to create an API to querty
    ... Because sometimes just wanted something to be rendered

    Bjorn: Want a use case where the user is presented with a drop down
    ... UA must provide that list

    Dan: Have a direct conflict with Olli's fingerprint concern

    Olli: For example, cannot query keyboard local
    ... only can use this while typing

    <burn> michael: analogy is getting info on which language is being
    used but not ability to query for list of available languages

    <burn> bjorn: propose we create the requirement to get list of
    languages and then will prioritize later

    <burn> michael: how about 2 reqs: one to get list and one to prevent
    list?

    Dan, I have to leave

    <burn> milan, sorry, thought you had 90 minutes. okay

    Michael: Put in both requirements, but then sort it out later

    <burn> scribe: Dan_Burnett

    <burn> scribenick: burn

    marc: regarding fingerprinting, this only involves local speech
    services, right? so web-based would not be an issue?

    olli: yes, mainly local

    michael: no, default user agent rather than local/remote. if default
    is remote then issue is the same

    bjorn: would like to see second requirement be generalized

    <mbodell> bjorn's proposed new requirement 1: Web apps should have
    access to a list of the languages supported by the current speech
    service implementations. (with discussion text that this may have
    issues with privacy and fingerprinting)

    robert: would like to see more substantial use cases from bjorn for
    having the list

    bjorn: how do you handle multilingual users? this is necessary

    robert: dan's example showed how this could work without an explicit
    list

    <mbodell> second proposed requirement: Web applications should not
    be able to fingerprint or profile the user, for example through
    getting a list of languages?

    bjorn: if web app wants to show UI to user to select a language,
    will only work if web app has a list

    dan: maybe this is a consent issue -- user needs to give consent for
    the list to go to the web app

    robert: don't see this happening

    bjorn: two-way language translator for tourists, where user sets
    local and remote langauges.

    raj: this can even be app-wide, but part of the app could be in a
    different language

    michael: in both of those examples, need to be able to specify
    language. this could be done by specifying language you want

    raj: apps do have need to specify language spoken in ways other than
    through keyboard or UI

    bjorn: maybe have consensus around requirement that when lang
    requested by web app is not available a fallback can be specified

    raj: we should specify that web apps are notified when requested
    lang is not available
    ... similar to notifying that reco resource is not available

    michale: maybe better is "must be able to be notified"
    ... we don't want to require that an error occur

    <mbodell> possible agreement requirement: Web application must be
    able to be notified when the selected language is not available

    however, not yet agreement on having list of supported languages
    available -- will take to the list if anyone cares to push for it

    bjorn: what about: web apps should be able to check if a particular
    UA supports a specific language

    olli: in practice that's the same as having the list
    ... the app would just try all the languages

    michael: could also do this by trying a bunch of recos in a row
    anyway

    bjorn: yeah, but user interface would be terrible, so probably won't
    happen

    raj: irrelevent. one is about which langs are supported, the other
    is about what happens if lang not available

    we agree on the notification part. will take the rest to the list

    dan: anything else that needs to be brought up today?

    michael: on vacation in two weeks, but will have the reqs doc
    updated and communicate by email

    no meeting next week because of thanksgiving

    eeting: HTML Speech Incubator Group Teleconference

    Date: 18 November 2010

Summary of Action Items

    [End of minutes]
      __________

Received on Friday, 19 November 2010 18:29:24 UTC