minutes: RWAB XG call 2008-12-02

aloha!

minutes from today's truncated RWAB XG call are available as 
hypertext from:

http://www.w3.org/2008/12/02-backplane-minutes.html

as an IRC log at:

http://www.w3.org/2008/12/02-backplane-irc

and as plain text, following my signature (there were only 2 of
us in attendance, so please review charlie's thoughts on the 
XG report he posted to public-xg-app-backplane:

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-app-backplane/2008Dec/0000.html

and the proposed report itself, one way or the other, and please 
contribute to the report on-list...

gregory.

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                                 - DRAFT -

                   Rich Web Application Backplane telecon

02 Dec 2008

Agenda:
*
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-app-backplane/2008Dec/0000.html

See also:
  * IRC log: http://www.w3.org/2008/12/02-backplane-irc

Attendees

  Present
         CharlieWiecha, Gregory_Rosmaita

  Regrets
         Jack, Uli

  Chair
         Charlie_Wiecha

  Scribe
         Gregory_Rosmaita

Contents

    * Topics
        1. XG Report
    * Summary of Action Items
    _________________________________________________________________

  CW: sent out draft - working on it this morning - few comments in
  minutes

 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-app-backplane/2008Dec/0000.html

XG Report

  CW: skipped over question of "what is a rich web application" --
  perhaps need to loop back a bit to address declarative languages for
  rich web applications
  ... prototyping early next year had been the plan, but perhaps have
  opportunity to begin first report with discussion of "what is a rich
  web application"
  ... re-read and think that the info is there, but needs to be compiled
  and conflated
  ... we are RWAB XG -- struck at TPAC about what other WGs doing; HTML5
  not interested; Dave Raggett has new XG
  ... aim is that RWAB XG report that could trigger thinking across
  community
  ... what is need for RWA?
  ... evolution of web from content platform to application platform;
  HTML came from content-publishing background and incrementally
  changes, but current working groups are concentrating on
  cross-platform apps
  ... both API and format -- continuing need for someone in W3C to
  investigate this issue in detail, not ad hoc
  ... what do we mean by "rich"? stems from functionality; definition of
  "rich" can factor that - not enough to provide graphics (presentation)
  -- think from MVC PoV it is an application, and each level has its own
  levels of richness
  ... pre-fill screen intelligently in conformance with past actions,
  saved preferences, etc. --- functionality of interactino
  ... context feedback - what controls are active at any point and time
  ... rich graphics PoV is limited; open discussion of richness

  GJR: sounds to me like ARIA for those who don't use AT

  CW: performance benefits, accessibility benefits, persistence with
  local cache
  ... second section to broaden definition of RWA so people don't think
  about rich graphics, but providing data-, view-, control/logic aspects

  <CharlieWiecha> see
 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-app-backplane/2008Dec/0000.html 
  for paper draft outline

  GJR: Rich Web Application equals "Smart" Web Application

  CW: how does one build one
  ... architectural patterns
  ... sub-section for each? just made list of what could think of
  offhand, so please add
  ... MVC patterns trying to incorporate into ubiquity-xforms -- feeding
  data by ubiquity binding - MVC pattern
  ... using events coordinated across page so more transparent
  ... Mark Birbeck very keen on this;
  ... JackJ keen on what he's developed in SMIL paper: implicit
  coordination pattern
  ... Rahul's submissions pattern - other uses of mechanism (incremental
  data refresh, etc.)
  ... can fill out sections on patterns
  ... section on problem of platform support: how to deliver XML to
  client?
  ... javascript as tag library not model for page author - javascript
  in XML rather than XSLT
  ... ODF implement in client using javascript; vertical standards
  ... XML not data definition, but processing model of life cycle; when
  have behavior need script library to do that - been traditional
  problem
  ... bridging what Forms WG doing - how did we get from here to there

  GJR: for the sub-section you outlined, i will provide prose as to how
  one could could repurpose from backend to deliver what is most
  appropriate/useable

  ADJOURNED

  [End of minutes]
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