RE: Exchange type issue

I'm very much opposed to this, as notify is just a bastardization of a one-way request. It is also not well thouht out or supported
in current Web Service technology, so why should this version of WS-CDL account for it?  

Martin.

>-----Original Message-----
>From: public-ws-chor-request@w3.org 
>[mailto:public-ws-chor-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Steve Ross-Talbot
>Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 9:49 AM
>To: Gary Brown
>Cc: Charlton Barreto; 'WS-Choreography List'
>Subject: Re: Exchange type issue
>
>
>
>I must admit I am still mystified as to the objection. As a  
>description language being clear about the intent seems a good thing  
>and so adding "notify" or "notification" to the description in an  
>exchange adds clarity. How one chooses to implement said  
>"notification" or "notify" is entirely up to the implementor(s) of  
>the end point(s). It turns out many protocols have the concept of a  
>notification as distinct from a respond and benefit from the  
>distinction. Given that it does nothing to the semantics of WS-CDL  
>but does enable a response to be distinguished in some way is it not  
>a good thing as opposed to a bad thing?
>
>I guess we shall talk more on the call tonight/today.
>
>Cheers
>
>Steve T
>
>On 5 Dec 2006, at 09:32, Gary Brown wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi
>>
>> Personally I don't see this as being any different to having an
>> action called 'notify'. The term still being used is related to  
>> notification - which is what I thought the objection was about.
>>
>> Although the suggested approach could be taken, my issue is that it
>> is adding a new flag that is only relevant when action="respond",  
>> and represents a state that is distinct from both a normal  
>> action="request" and action="respond" - therefore I see it as being  
>> a redundant additional flag, where a new 'action' state could  
>> easily be used instead.
>>
>> However, if this proposal does overcome previous objections, then I
>> will support it.
>>
>> Regards
>> Gary
>>
>>
>> Charlton Barreto wrote:
>>> In considering this, it is clear that we need the ability to
>>> distinguish whether an respond is associated with a particular  
>>> request. However, there seems to be some difficulty with  
>>> introducing a new action="notify" to do this.
>>> As such, would it be acceptible to everyone to instead use an  
>>> additional attribute for action="respond"? I don't see that adding  
>>> an attribute is semantically any different from adding a new  
>>> action. However, it may be more amenable to those who would prefer  
>>> not to express "in-out"/"notification" as a distinct action.  If  
>>> this direction is desired we could then have an attribute,  
>>> notification="true", used/parsed only when action="respond", that  
>>> would indicate that the response is not associated with a request.
>>> On Wednesday, November 01, 2006, at 09:09AM, "Gary Brown"  
>>> <gary@pi4tech.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi
>>>>
>>>> As discussed on the conf call last night, I will outline the
>>>> requirements for this change and the benefits if can offer.
>>>>
>>>> 1) We need the ability to distinguish whether or not an exchange
>>>> with action="respond" is coupled with a preceding exchange with  
>>>> action="request".
>>>>
>>>> A simple scenario would be where an interaction, with a request
>>>> exchange, is followed by a choice that has two paths, and each  
>>>> path has an interaction with a 'respond' exchange for a normal  
>>>> response. Currently it is not possible to determine whether one  
>>>> of these is intended to be a response coupled with the request,  
>>>> or whether both are 'out only' messages, or whether the user has  
>>>> in fact made an error in the choreography design, and is  
>>>> expecting both to be responses to the request.
>>>>
>>>> 2) The benefits of having a clear and explicit understanding of
>>>> whether a response is actually coupled to a preceding request are:
>>>>
>>>> a) Static validation - we can determine when a user has made an
>>>> error, by specifying two normal responses.
>>>>
>>>> b) Deriving correct service interfaces - service interfaces can
>>>> be derived from the choreography description. However at the  
>>>> moment, even a simple case where there is a request followed by a  
>>>> separate interaction including a respond exchange, it may be  
>>>> unclear whether they are a one-way request followed by an 'out- 
>>>> only', or whether they are a request-response pair. Making this  
>>>> explicit in the choreography means that these ambiguities would  
>>>> not arise.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In relation to the terminology question, after further thought I
>>>> believe that 'notify' is actually a suitable value for the new  
>>>> exchange action type. This is because it is exactly that, an  
>>>> action. The term notify simply means that someone will be  
>>>> informed, it does not imply whether there is one or more parties  
>>>> being informed. This is determined by the communication structure  
>>>> on which that notification is being sent - and at present CDL  
>>>> only supports point to point.
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>> Gary
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Received on Tuesday, 5 December 2006 15:14:16 UTC