- From: <Len_Greski@grainger.com>
- Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 11:44:42 -0500
- To: bob.haugen@choreology.com
- Cc: public-ws-chor@w3.org, public-ws-chor-request@w3.org
Robert wrote: Len Greski posted the interesting Request Quote use case. I have some questions and comments: 1. Is this use case based on actual practice? It has a realistic air about it (unlike some use cases) but are all the details from actual practice? If so, then I find it even more interesting. If not, does it represent something like desired or to-be practice? Yes, this use case is fairly close to actual current practice. 2. You wrote that in this use case, "the contractual relationships between Supplier and Manufacturer roles are already in place." I assume that means the contractual relationships between Supplier and Buyer are *not* in place, and the use case is the opening of contract formation between Supplier and Buyer? Correct. The request for a quote begins the process of contract formation, as the Supplier makes a commitment that the quote is valid for <n> days. The fact that a quote is offered, however, does not obligate the Buyer to purchase. 3. Jumping around a bit, you wrote, "Need to distinguish the idea of a contract between services ... from a legal contract." Tony Fletcher and I collaborated on a paper about a somewhat related use case in trying to harmonize OASIS-Business Transaction Protocol and UN/CEFACT Business Collaboration Protocol: http://www.supplychainlinks.com/UNCEFACT-papers.htm In that paper, we distinguised between: * Economic Contracts, about commitments to exchange economic resources, e.g. products and money; and * Transaction Contracts, about the rules of engagement for doing electronic commerce. Whether you buy that terminology, the distinctions in the paper might be useful. Economic Commitments can be defined precisely. Contracts can contain both Economic Commitments as well as Transaction Contracts, which is where the going gets muddy. Thanks for the reference, I'll take a look at your paper. On the teleconference last week, we had some discussion were we used the word contract. The term means different things to different people, and we need to distinguish what it means for the choreography specification, versus its business meaning (a legal agreement between two parties blah blah blah...). The distinction in your paper, economic vs. transaction, may be useful in helping us clarify our use of the word. 4. Getting back to the scenario, I don't see where the Buyer accepts the Quote. In other words, I don't see where a contract between Buyer and Supplier is legally bound. The Quote appears to be binding on the Supplier for some timespan, and presumably if the Buyer accepts it they have an Economic Contract. But not until? I specifically left out the activity where the Buyer and Supplier convert the quote into a contract. In many situations the relationship between Buyer and Supplier is relatively informal, i.e. the Buyer can buy off the quote for a specified period of time without entering into a formal contract. In other situations acceptance of the quote triggers more elaborate contracts process. 5. Might the Buyer be getting quotes from many Suppliers, and accepting the best one? Yes, this is possible. I scoped the use case at a relationship between a single Buyer and a single Supplier, because this is complex enough to cover the key features that must be handled by the choreography specification (contract provisions, service level agreements, security provisions, privacy provisions, non-repudiation, escalation procedures, exception handling), without being overly complex. 6. "The Supplier may reject one or more terms requested by the Buyer. To handle the negotiation of terms, there may be multiple request / response sequences between Buyer and Supplier." Very difficult to present as a linear event sequence, and I see that you did not try to do so. How would you handle that negotiation? If this use case is from actual practice, how *do* you handle it? There's a saying, "everything is negotiable". I think that means in a business conversation, every point of agreement may resolve into a negotiation. I know how it happens in "meat space", but haven't figured out how to handle this electronically. We'll have to think about this further because most electronic negotiation models that I know about are require some kind of human interaction (e.g. auction sites), or are very restricted in the parameter(s) being negotiated (e.g bid/ask on securities). Hopefully one or more of our erstwhile colleagues on the list will provide an answer to this one... regards, __________________________________ Len Greski Director eBusiness Architecture & Development W.W. Grainger voice: (847) 793-5185 fax: (847) 793-5019 cell: (847) 366-1376 mailto:greski.l@grainger.com
Received on Thursday, 19 June 2003 00:29:14 UTC