- From: Steve Ross-Talbot <steve@enigmatec.net>
- Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 21:27:41 +0100
- To: Ricky Ho <riho@cisco.com>
- Cc: Assaf Arkin <arkin@intalio.com>, public-ws-chor@w3.org
Ricky, when you say can they share the same channel do you mean can they do this at the same time (i.e. multicast or pub/sub) or do you mean can they share the same channel one after the other? Cheers Steve T On Monday, April 14, 2003, at 06:55 pm, Ricky Ho wrote: > > Assaf, thanks a lot for elaboration. I have some more questions > embedded. > > > At 09:38 AM 4/14/2003 -0700, Assaf Arkin wrote: > >> Ricky Ho wrote: >> >>> Assaf, thanks for your detail explanation of the Pi-C model. I have >>> some following questions. >>> >>> 1) Can a channel have more than one listening process ? >> >> Receiving a message over a channel is something an action does. So >> you may want to have different actions listening to the same channel >> at different points in times. > > I'm thinking the 3-party scenario P | Q | R. Can there be two > parties listening on the same channel ? > > By reading the example, I observe that > 1) All "send" operation can be reduced > 2) An "receive" operation can be reduced if it can find a concurrent > matched "send" operation. > > So if there are multiple "receive" from more than one party, which one > will be received ? I expect multiple channel listening (at the same > time) should NOT be allowed. But I want to confirm with you the > actual answer. > > >> If you are talking about broadcast, then you would model it >> differently by either talking to distinct listeners over different >> channels, or expressing infinite number of indistinct listeners using >> one channel. > > Lets introduce two more roles, "Airplane Shipper" and "Truck Shipper", > each has its own process flow. > > There are two cases here. > > 1) Queue scenario > The seller send a "shipment request" to a channel. Can both Shippers > listening on this same channel but only one of them will successfully > receive it ? Lets say the seller doesn't care and both shippers are > competing to get the shipment request. > > 2) Broadcast scenario > The seller send a "shipment request" to a channel. Can both Shippers > listening on this same channel and both receive it ? > > In this example, since only one shipper will get the shipment request > while the other one will just wait but never gets it. Is the > composition process still reducible to 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 ? > > >> But these are all formalisms of a lower-level language. A lower-level >> language may take a multicast protocol like IP multicast and express >> it in terms of distinct channels, e.g. representing MAC addresses. In >> a higher-level language you'll simplify that by having a multicast >> capability which yields to that formalism but is easier to work with. >> >>> 2) How to do reduction when "condition" steps are involved ? Are >>> the following reducible ? >>> >>> Process placeorder >>> Send order >>> Receive orderResponse >>> >>> Process acceptOrder >>> Receive order >>> switch >>> case conditionX >>> Send orderResponse >>> default >>> Send errorResponse >> >> Nope. You end up at a point where one send can be reduced with one >> receive. But you have another send that can happen and nothing to >> reduce it with. > > Does it match now if I change to .. > > Process placeorder > Send order > Choice > Case 1 > Receive orderResponse > Case 2 > Receive errorResponse > > Process acceptOrder > Receive order > switch > case conditionX > Send orderResponse > default > Send errorResponse > > If so, how does the "choice/receive" match with "switch/send" ? > > >>> 3) So far, each steps within a process is sequential. Can a process >>> have multiple steps in parallel ? If so, can you give me an example >>> ? And how reduction will be done in this case ? >> >> Do you mean multiple different steps or multiple instances of the >> same step? >> >> If you mean different steps than I've already shown that. Remember >> that nothing interesting happens on its own, all the interesting >> things happen concurrently. To receive a message someone also have to >> send it. So the first example I gave contained two things that happen >> in parallel and you can extend it to 3, 4, etc. However complex it >> is, you can easily express it. > > I mean multiple different steps but from the same process (party). > For example, lets say the seller in parallel send one shipment request > to the airplane shipper and another shipment request to the truck > shipper. And then he wait for both respond and then select one with a > cheaper price before proceed to next step. How do you represent the > "synchronization" after two parallel steps ? > > >> If you mean the same step occuring n times in parallel, then #4 gives >> an example for that. > > #4 shows the same step occuring n times "sequentially" but not "in > parallel". Right ? > > Rgds, Ricky > > >> As for showing the reduction, this is where pi-c becomes more >> complicated than elementary school algebra and you'll have to start >> looking into congruence, simulation, bi-simulation, etc. I'm not >> mathematically inclined, so I can't give you a much better >> explanation that you can find in Milner's book. >> >>> >>> 4) Can you give me a loop example ? I vaguely recall you can use a >>> recursive definition to achieve that. >> >> Reflexive. >> >> until = send:start | ! ( receive:start.doSomething.(send:start[x=y]0) >> ) >> >> The ! (bang) precedes a process that can happen n times (0 to >> infinity) whenever it's guard is able to receive a message. So !P = >> !P | P = !P | P | P = P | P | P ... It's also called replication and >> represents the ability to do the same thing n times. For example, a >> Web server that receives an HTTP request and sends back a response >> does the same thing n times. >> >> The [x=y] is some shorthand for evaluating a condition. If the >> condition is false you do the process on the left, if it's true you >> do the process on the right (kind of like if ... else ... ). >> >> So in this case you have a loop that is performed at least once, if >> x=y it ends, and if x!=y it repeats, essentially an until loop, and >> it repeats itself without recursion. >> >> arkin >> >>> >>> Best regards, >>> Ricky >> > > This email is confidential and may be protected by legal privilege. If > you are not the intended recipient, please do not copy or disclose > its content but delete the email and contact the sender immediately. > Whilst we run antivirus software on all internet emails we are not > liable for any loss or damage. 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Received on Monday, 14 April 2003 16:28:18 UTC