- From: Mark Little <mark.little@arjuna.com>
- Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 10:32:26 +0100
- To: Martin Gudgin <mgudgin@microsoft.com>
- CC: John Kemp <john.kemp@nokia.com>, "Conor P. Cahill" <concahill@aol.com>, "Rogers, Tony" <Tony.Rogers@ca.com>, David Orchard <dorchard@bea.com>, Mark Nottingham <markn@bea.com>, WS-Addressing <public-ws-addressing@w3.org>
+1 Martin Gudgin wrote: >To me, it's about figuring out whether people can implement the spec 'as >written'. Part of getting the spec to CR in the first place is ensuring >it meets the requirements specified in usage scenarios etc. Few specs do >everything everyone wants them to do. Sometimes features are left out >for a variety of reasons ( same with shipping any 'product' really ). I >believe this particular 'reasonable usage' was discussed by the WG and, >essentially, didn't make the 80/20 cut. And I think the discussion >occurred before Last Call, let alone CR. > >It's easy to cut features when moving forward from CR. It's very hard ( >impossible? ) to add features without incurring signficant extra process >( i.e. going back to Last Call ). > >To me, before ( or during ) Last Call was the right time to ask for this >feature to be added. Not during CR. And in some cases, people ask for >features to be added, and the WG still declines to add them... That's >just part of the way standards sausage gets made... > >Gudge > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: John Kemp [mailto:john.kemp@nokia.com] >>Sent: 16 October 2005 19:33 >>To: Martin Gudgin >>Cc: Conor P. Cahill; Rogers, Tony; David Orchard; ext Mark >>Little; Mark Nottingham; WS-Addressing >>Subject: Re: Multiple Addresses in an EPR >> >>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>Hash: SHA1 >> >>ext Martin Gudgin wrote: >> >> >>>I thought the CR phase was about figuring out whether the >>> >>> >>spec could be >> >> >>>implemented 'as written'... >>> >>> >>Isn't it also about figuring out whether the spec. is >>interoperable for >>reasonable usage? I've heard a reasonable usage expressed that isn't >>supported interoperably by WS-A. >> >>- - JohnK >> >> >> >>>Gudge >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: public-ws-addressing-request@w3.org >>>>[mailto:public-ws-addressing-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of >>>>Conor P. Cahill >>>>Sent: 16 October 2005 18:39 >>>>To: Rogers, Tony >>>>Cc: David Orchard; John Kemp; ext Mark Little; Mark >>>>Nottingham; WS-Addressing >>>>Subject: RE: Multiple Addresses in an EPR >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Rogers, Tony wrote on 10/16/2005, 9:02 PM: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>So I would prefer that those who have this newly >>>>> >>>>> >>>>discovered need can >>>> >>>> >>>>>choose to solve it in one of the other ways that you >>>>> >>>>> >>have outlined, >> >> >>>>>rather than hold back a standard that is in CR phase >>>>> >>>>> >>already - yes. >> >> >>>>>Making the change that you propose would drag the spec >>>>> >>>>> >>>>back to LC again, >>>> >>>> >>>>>and delay it for everyone. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>That's what the CR process is about. If one can't raise issues >>>>and get them resolved, then there doesn't need to be a CR phase >>>>at all. >>>> >>>>On a technical basis, I haven't heard anyone say that this isn't >>>>a resonable use case. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>Your fear that there will be a variety of implementations may be >>>>>groundless - if you choose one and describe it now, then >>>>> >>>>> >>others can >> >> >>>>>follow your lead, and all will be well. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>So you're telling me that CA and other implementors will commit to >>>>adopt one that I choose to describe now? I'm guessing not. I'm >>>>guessing that there will be many toolkits that either a) don't >>>>support this functionality at all because it isn't in the spec, >>>>or b) choose to do it in a different non-interoperable way. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>"Not having this capability makes it very hard/inefficient >>>>> >>>>> >>>>to support a >>>> >>>> >>>>>real world use of the spec." >>>>> >>>>>Not true - you have described multiple ways in which you might >>>>>implement a solution, and they appear both simple and efficient >>>>>(perhaps not as aesthetically pleasing). If there were truly no >>>>>way in which the problem might be addressed, other than changing >>>>>the spec, then I would be more sympathetic. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>A) My comment was more related to trying to follow the spec as >>>>written since that is all that out-of-the-box toolkits will >>>>be able to do). The spec currently requires that the physical >>>>address be carried in a single wsa:Address element. So if I >>>>wanted to follow the spec and I had multiple addresses I would >>>>have to have multiple EPRs (othewise I risk that clients >>>>built off the spec will not recognize the alternative addresses). >>>> >>>>B) Given that a spec has an xs:any in the EPR, I could put the >>>>kitchen sink in there, so there's pretty much no problem that >>>>would be impossible to resolve. That doesn't mean that there >>>>aren't good reasons to have defined elements (which is why, >>>>even though there is an xs:any, the spec does define Address, >>>>ReferenceParameters, and Metadata). >>>> >>>>Conor >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >>Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin) >>Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org >> >>iD8DBQFDUw1BmNJiOOM57NMRAtthAJwJzvs/eQtyMSodYniL8mmqXc0AagCdFRKV >>agwwkP3fOHPnCTiyeU2lCIs= >>=e6VC >>-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >> >> >> > > > -- Mark Little Chief Architect Arjuna Technologies Ltd www.arjuna.com
Received on Monday, 17 October 2005 09:32:23 UTC