[TD-TF] minutes - 12 May 2021

available at:
  https://www.w3.org/2021/05/12-wot-td-minutes.html


also as text below.

Thanks a lot for taking the minutes, Daniel!

Kazuyuki

---
   [1]W3C

      [1] https://www.w3.org/


                             ¡V DRAFT ¡V
                             WoT-WG - TD-TF

12 May 2021

   [2]Agenda. [3]IRC log.

      [2] https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf#May_12.2C_2021

      [3] https://www.w3.org/2021/05/12-wot-td-irc


Attendees

   Present
          Cristiano_Aguzzi, Daniel_Peintner, Ege_Korkan,
          Kaz_Ashimura, Michael_Koster, Michael_McCool,
          Ryuichi_Matsukura, Sebastian_Kaebisch, Tomoaki_Mizushima

   Regrets
          -

   Chair
          Sebastian/Ege

   Scribe
          dape, kaz

Contents

    1. [4]Preliminaries
         1. [5]Draft minutes approval
         2. [6]next TD meeting 1h later
    2. [7]Publication plans
         1. [8]Issue 1127
    3. [9]Propose closing issues
         1. [10]Issue 841
         2. [11]Issue 897
         3. [12]Issue 1068
         4. [13]Issue 957
    4. [14]Issues
         1. [15]Which is better to actuate devices, invoking
            ACTION or writing PROPERTY? #1020
    5. [16]Open PRs
         1. [17]More fixes to canonicalization #1129
         2. [18]fix: ReSpec rendering issue #1132
         3. [19]fix: some typos and misspellings #1133
         4. [20]fix: tweak minor example bugs #1136
         5. [21]Comments - Call for Review of WoT Thing
            Description 1.1 specification and resolution to
            publish update #1137
    6. [22]Issue 1127 (revisited)

Meeting minutes

  Preliminaries

    Draft minutes approval

   [23]May-5

     [23] https://www.w3.org/2021/05/05-wot-td-minutes.html


   Sebastian: tackled many PRs
   ¡K security, validation, icon links
   ¡K profile term
   ¡K new terms for dataSchema
   ¡K updates in terminology section
   ¡K introduce ThingModel namespace
   ¡K canonicalization improvements

   Sebastian: Call for working draft review

   Sebastian: any objections?

   <all>: none -> minutes approved

    next TD meeting 1h later

   Sebastian: Kaz has conflict
   ¡K start 1 hour later and have a 1 hour call

  Publication plans

    Issue 1127

   <kaz> [24]Issue 1127 - Publish updated WD for Thing Description
   1.1

     [24] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1127


   Sebastian: Started call for review
   ¡K collect issues in [25]https://github.com/w3c/

   wot-thing-description/issues/1127

     [25] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1127


   Sebastian: got already feedback
   ¡K e.g., KotisK about trust and security
   ¡K should check with McCool
   ¡K got comments about broken links
   ¡K we do not use final namespaces yet
   ¡K for previous drafts we had an intermediary page

   Sebastian: can add note making clear that namespaces are not
   final

   Sebastian: any opinion?

   Cristiano: Note seems a good idea to me
   ¡K temporary URLs sound good too

   Sebastian: in previous drafts we used "working" namespaces
   ¡K changed to final URL in CR phase

   Kaz: 2 comments
   ¡K 1. KotisK is official invited expert, we can invite him
   ¡K 2. w.r.t. namespace, if we really need it, we can allocate an
   additional namespace for TM, but the bigger question is about
   whether we really want to include the TM feature as a normative
   feature within the CR version of the TD spec.

   Sebastian: have to leave for 10 minutes....

   <kaz> [ Kaz proposes we talk about the other topics during
   Sebastian's absence. ]

  Propose closing issues

   <Ege> [26]https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/

   issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Propose+closing%22

     [26] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues?q=is:issue+is:open+label:"Propose+closing"

    Issue 841

   [27]Issue 841 - Add "multipleOf" term to NumberSchema and
   IntegerSchema

     [27] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/841


   Ege: Any objections to close?

   -> none -> proceed with closing

    Issue 897

   [28]Issue 897 - TDT shall allow to define placeholders

     [28] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/897


   Ege: placeholders are available
   ¡K propose to close

   -> no objections -> proceed with closing

    Issue 1068

   [29]Issue 1068 - uriVariables needs to be more limited

     [29] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1068


   Ege: discussion with Cristiano in issue

   Cristiano: somewhat related

   Ege: Parts are in the spec
   ¡K think should be note instead of normal text

   Daniel: +1

   Cristiano: Suggest to close original issue and create another
   issue

   Ege: makes sense
   ¡K created issue 1138

   <kaz> [30]Issue 1138 - Making the uriVariables recommendation
   paragraph an editor's note/

     [30] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1138


   -> no objections to close original issue -> proceed with
   closing

   [31]https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/957


     [31] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/957


   Kaz: w.r.t. previous issue 1138, note would mean not normative
   anymore
   ¡K if we don't need this sentence we can use ed. note

   Ege: I think it is a note for *new* systems..
   ¡K kind of a recommendation

   Kaz: if the text is included in this section (normative
   sections) ... and it does not include MUST, SHOULD etc
   ¡K not sure if we need to convert it to note

   Ege: It is about visibility ... since it is a recommendation

   Kaz: Nicer to have a specific section how to use uriVariables
   ¡K subsubsection etc

   Ege: Seems unnecessary to me

   Kaz: contentType might need a dedicated section also

   Ege: Makes sense

   Cristiano: +1

   Ege: makes linking easier also
   ¡K will create issue

    Issue 957

   <kaz> [32]Issue 957 - Unsubscribing and unobserving are not in
   default values

     [32] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/957

   Ege: Closing issue 957

  Issues

    Which is better to actuate devices, invoking ACTION or writing
    PROPERTY? #1020

   [33]Issue 1020 - Which is better to actuate devices, invoking
   ACTION or writing PROPERTY?

     [33] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1020


   Sebastian: MatsukuraSan asks when to use Action and/or Property

   Matsukura: original idea is very simple
   ¡K table shows standards
   ¡K all standards define property
   ¡K some define actions
   ¡K property defined to actuate physical things
   ¡K Echonet Lite just defines properties
   ¡K natural to map Echonet Lite properties to WoT properties
   ¡K TD is not crystal clear
   ¡K suggest to improve the situation

   Sebastian: Make clear when to use actions?
   ¡K most use-cases can use properties

   Cristiano: Do we have a concrete ECHONET example that maps to
   action?

   Kaz: During the vF2F meeting in March, Matsuda-san explained
   the latest status of ECHONET Lite Web API specification
   including action/history handling
   ¡K page 16 in PDF
   ¡K we should wait for their concrete use case description and
   expected TD binding, etc.

   <kaz> [34]Matsuda-san's slides on ECHONET Lit Web API

     [34] https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/main/PRESENTATIONS/2021-03-online-f2f/2021-03-15-ECHONET-Lite-WebAPI-ECHONET-Consortium.pdf


   Cristiano: there are plans to add actions?

   Kaz: I believe action is already in work based on Matsuda-san's
   presentation above, and we were planning to think about
   possible binding based on some concrete use case and
   descriptions.
   ¡K So I'm a bit confused, and would suggest we should ask
   ECHONET as a whole about their latest status and their expected
   direction again.

   Matsukura: action in ECHONET is very special
   ¡K property is used almost everwhere
   ¡K action in ECHONET is a very special case

   Sebastian: Would be good to understand why the mapping is not
   working smoothly
   ¡K ECHONET participants in PlugFest would be very good
   ¡K suggest to continue discussion in issue
   ¡K Matsukura-san, may I ask you to provide a statement about
   difference between property and action

   Matsukura: Sure

   Cristiano: similar discussion. Not clear whether write
   operation returns value?
   ¡K not clear in TD spec
   ¡K we should try to be more clear

   <cris> good question daniel :)

   Daniel: writing property in ECHONET, does it return a value

   Matsukura: I think just success or failure
   ¡K will check though

   Sebastian: Discussion in profile about whether PUT returns a
   value also
   ¡K page 20 in PDF shows that payload echoes the value

   Kaz: w.r.t. action, see page 21
   ¡K suggest to check the latest status with ECHONET

   Sebastian: will mention ECHONET procedure in wot-profile PR#77

   Kaz: we need a use case and actual data description, also.
   right?
   ¡K given Matsuda-san as the official liaison contact gave the
   description on the latest status of the ECHONET Lite Web API
   based on his slides during the vF2F in March and clarified he
   would continue to be the liaison contact, probably we should
   ask Matsukura-san to work with Matsuda-san to provide further
   clarification about ECHONET's latest status and their preferred
   direction.

   <mjk> The OCF API CoAP binding for update also returns the
   value

   Sebastian: Matsukura-san, can you talk with the ECHONET people?

   Matsukura: will do

   Koster: OCF API CoAP binding for update also returns the value
   ¡K use POST (instead of PUT) .. because of partial updates

   Cristiano: is this a profile issue or is this a broader issue?
   ¡K seems more an architecture issue
   ¡K we seem to have use-cases

   Koster: feature of TD whether to expect a return value

   Ege: different aspect: action does not need input/output
   ¡K write property is different

   Cristiano: Agree, different design choice

   Koster: for the industry we need some flexibility
   ¡K model *looks* like property but is action...
   ¡K different return value might mean it is an action

   Cristiano: +1

   Ege: +1

   <ryuichi> +1

   Sebastian: clarifications with ECHONET are useful also

   Koster: it is in some SDF discussions also ...

   Sebastian: actions to me was always somethings that takes time

   Koster: we need to figure out best practices

   Sebastian: Okay... let's get back to this the next week
   ¡K Thanks, Matsukura-san!

   Ege: FYI: related issue: observe vs event

   Sebastian: Agree, same kind of category

  Open PRs

    More fixes to canonicalization #1129

   [35]https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1129


     [35] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1129


   McCool: new rules
   ¡K talked with Victor also
   ¡K security objects were inlined
   ¡K re-frame from RDF reversal needs to recreate name
   ¡K base was an issue also
   ¡K base cannot be changed in Canonicalization process
   ¡K cleaning up corner cases

   Sebastian: Should we merge it?

   McCool: not controversial .. but no review yet
   ¡K created wd-update-candidate branch
   ¡K review should be done in this branch

   Sebastian: rendered version in main branch only

   Daniel: not sure if this is overly comlpicated.. could hold
   back merging

   McCool: should not change reviewed document
   ¡K typos could be merged
   ¡K bigger PRs should not be merged

    fix: ReSpec rendering issue #1132

   [36]https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1132


     [36] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1132


   Daniel: just escapes the "{{"

   Sebastian: Suggest to merge
   ¡K no objections -> merged

    fix: some typos and misspellings #1133

   [37]https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1133


     [37] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1133


   Sebastian: no concerns --> merging

    fix: tweak minor example bugs #1136

   [38]https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1136


     [38] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1136


   Daniel: just fixes examples

   Sebastian: no objections -> merging

    Comments - Call for Review of WoT Thing Description 1.1
    specification and resolution to publish update #1137

   [39]https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1137

     [39] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1137


   Daniel: bug w.r.t. MultiLanguage

   Sebastian: Yes, we should fix that

   McCool: suggest hold of creating a branch
   ¡K merge my PRs later

   Sebastian: makes sense

   McCool: Will work on my PRs in the meantime

   Sebastian: I will create a PR for issue 1137
   ¡K I also suggest to update abstract, see [40]https://
   github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1127

     [40] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1127


   McCool: Seems more than just a bugfix
   ¡K maybe discuss it in main call

   Sebastian: plan to use initial example for ThingModel

   McCool: main call discussion next week?

   Sebastian: Agree

  Issue 1127 (revisited)

   Kaz: We need to go back to issue 1127
   ¡K missed some points
   ¡K need to clarify what is normative
   ¡K e.g., ThingModel

   McCool: I think ThingModel should be normative

   Kaz: either way is fine. We just need to be clear

   McCool: mark it as "at risk" is an alternative

   Sebastian: FYI: Editdor project is implementing ThingModel
   already

   McCool: I am also not concerned

   Sebastian: It used to be part of the Appendiex, and I'm not
   sure if it should be included in the TD spec, though

   kaz: in that case, we can identify the Thing Model feature as a
   feature at-risk anyway
   ¡K if we can get sufficient implementations, that's fine and
   great
   ¡K I wanted to make sure about this point before our sending out
   the call for review request

   Sebastian: ok

   [adjourned]


    Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by
    [41]scribe.perl version 131 (Sat Apr 24 15:23:43 2021 UTC).

     [41] https://w3c.github.io/scribe2/scribedoc.html

Received on Monday, 12 July 2021 07:58:59 UTC