- From: Kazuyuki Ashimura <ashimura@w3.org>
- Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2020 20:51:57 +0900
- To: public-wot-wg@w3.org
available at:
https://www.w3.org/2020/06/05-wot-td-minutes.html
also as text below.
Thanks a lot for taking the minutes, Daniel!
Kazuyuki
---
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
WoT-WG - TD-TF
05 Jun 2020
Attendees
Present
Kaz_Ashimura, Ege_Korkan, Sebastian_Kaebisch,
Tomoaki_Mizushima, Daniel_Peintner, Klaus_Hartke
Regrets
Michael_Lagally, Cristiano_Aguzzi
Chair
Sebastian
Scribe
dape
Contents
* [2]Topics
1. [3]Agenda
2. [4]Preliminaries
3. [5]Prev minutes
4. [6]T2TRG meeting on Monday
5. [7]Binding Templates
6. [8]Issues
7. [9]Issue 307
8. [10]Issue 908
9. [11]PlugFest
10. [12]Topics for VF2F
* [13]Summary of Action Items
* [14]Summary of Resolutions
__________________________________________________________
<inserted> scribenick: dape
Agenda
Sebastian: Agenda bashing
... minutes
... Monday Wishi meeting
... CoAP in RDF
... Issues
... PlugFest topics
... F2F meeting topics
... Anything more?
<inserted> (none)
Preliminaries
Sebastian: BTW, Cristiano has now "invited expert" status
Prev minutes
<kaz> [15]May-15
[15] https://www.w3.org/2020/05/15-wot-td-minutes.html
<kaz> typos - eample, licnse, sript
Sebastian: Minutes checking May 15 --> approved
<sebastian> [16]May-29
[16] https://www.w3.org/2020/05/29-wot-td-minutes.html
Sebastian: iotschema.org updates, issue discussions (bug in
JSONLD playground, ...), oneDM, Ege's static TD approach
... --> minutes May-29 approved
T2TRG meeting on Monday
Klaus: no changes to Agenda recently
Sebastian: Unfortunately I am on vacation next week
... asked M. Koster to present oneDM/TD discussion
<sebastian>
[17]https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/903
[17] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/903
Sebastian: Klaus, do you think we can add issue to agenda item
(1400Z)
... one important aspect for us is also the topic about
hypermedia control, 1430Z
Kaz: after hypermedia control discussion, we might want to take
a look at RESTful design document
Sebastian: Maybe Klaus can give a quick overview
Klaus: in many meetings we had questions how to do design
decisions
... this document tries to capture the best practices
... not a standard, it is not prescriptive
... e.g., long running actions --> use collection resource
... or light bulb, do I need history of dimming?
... we hope document is useful for others
... so far not that much feedback
... we appreciate any feedback
Sebastian: Should try to make people aware about this document
Klaus: Shall we add names to agenda points ?
Sebastian: Some people take over whole discussion block
... should be fine I guess
Kaz: Maybe we also check with M. Koster to make sure
Sebastian: Not sure about topic "Handling URLs"
Klaus: Not sure either
Sebastian: No "real" news from our side I think
Kaz: Related to DID? We should ask McCool
Sebastian: I see.
... Will talk to McCool and Koster
Binding Templates
Sebastian: CoAP in RDF
... we provided some basic terms in binding templates document
already
... cov:options, cov:methodName, ...
... not yet in machine readable RDF representation (no ontology
yet)
<kaz> [18]Binding Template draft - 5.3.2 CoAP Vocabulary
[18] https://w3c.github.io/wot-binding-templates/#coap-vocabulary
Sebastian: We have HTTP ontology
... we need the same for CoAP
... VC started initial document for MQTT and also CoAP
<sebastian>
[19]https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/tree/master/on
tology
[19] https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/tree/master/ontology
Sebastian: we need to work on RDF (ttl files)
Ege: Note: Vocabulary is not the same
... methodName vs methodCall
Sebastian: I am happy that Klaus is also interested in the CoAP
work
... we have the framework setup. we need to work on content now
Ege: information how to use render script is in readme of repo
Sebastian: How do we want to organize the work?
... github discussions, regular meetings, .. ?
Klaus: One initial meeting to kick off would be fine
Sebastian: Makes sense
Kaz: initial meeting: using one TD call or additional call?
Sebastian: Suggest additional call
... mainly Klaus, Ege, Sebastian, Koster, Victor
... Next week im on vacation, the week after is PlugFest
... maybe in PlugFest week?
... will setup Doodle poll
Klaus: Shall we narrow down choice ?
... Monday, Wed, Friday does not work for me
Ege: Thursday works for me
Klaus: Tuesday my preference
... List of Editors: premature putting me on this list
Sebastian: not "final" yet
Kaz: I think Tuesday works better, Thursday are plenty of calls
already
Sebastian: OK, will setup Doodle
Issues
<inserted> [20]Issue 899
[20] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/899
Sebastian: Issue 899, long running actions
... we have different proposals
... Victor proposes dynamically changing TDs -->
[21]https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/tree/master/pr
oposals/hypermedia-control
... Ege proposes static TDs --> patterns in TD
[21] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/tree/master/proposals/hypermedia-control
<Ege> [22]PR 907
[22] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/907
Ege: proposal is in PR
... similar to what Victor did... unless TD is static
... e.g., we have fade operation returning with brightness
value as number
... important to note: output refers post response
... want to manage fade operation (query, update, cancel)
... after POST/fade new resources are created (e.g., GET
/fade/1)
... href of new resources can be static
... e.g., GET fade/ongoing
... 1 fade operation at the time vs. multiple operation
... suggest adding additional operation types (queryaction,
updateaction, cancelaction)
... one problem in non-fixed href --> it is not clear how to
get final href
... in case hrefs are dynamic (e.g., {id}) we need to describe
that
... meaning of input/output should not change --> refers to
action request
... added query>input, update>input, update>output,
cancel>input
... implementations may choose the according information (e.g.,
no cancel input needed)
... open issue -> how to integrate dynamic hrefs
... part of header of response
... could also be in payload
... complications: information in header vs. body
... Scripting API concerns -> access to headers?
Daniel: Do we need {id} in header... in body seems better for
Scripting and other protocols than HTTP/CoAP
Ege: Issue with existing protocols
Klaus: depending on the case we might need multiple running
actions (e.g., different coffee orders)
... queeing actions vs one action is possible (depends on use
case)
<inserted> scribenick: kaz
Klaus: going back to the original question about dynamic TDs
... starting, monitoring, etc.
... pause, resume, etc.
<inserted> scribenick: dape
Klaus: instead of working with ids, plugging in url templates
Ege: Makes sense
Klaus: descriptive vs. prescriptive
... need to look what products do today
Ege: we should not have to change... maybe we do not support
alle specific solutions
... e.g., with what has been shown we can describe Mozilla
implementations
Kaz: Useful if we could have concrete use-cases/devices
... should clarify variations
Ege: can look at some examples (Mozilla, coffee machine)
Kaz: Yes, please think about concrete devices
... and combination of devices so that we could clarify actual
behavior of them and what is required to handle them. that
would be useful for this initial discussion of course, but
would be useful to the future plugfet as well
Ege: should also look into Oracle implementation
<Zakim> dape, you wanted to running actions
Daniel: starting with requirements lists also?
<inserted> kaz: right, and if we could clarify use cases and
scenarios with concrete device setting, it would be easier to
clarify the requirements as well :)
<inserted> EK: thought there were some use case descriptions
related to hypermedia control already
Sebastian: Let's start with looking into the Oracle and Mozilla
use cases
... w.r.t. PlugFest
... we have 2 versions on the table. shall we pick one or check
out both
... my feeling is we might want to evaluate both
Ege: +1
Kaz: after clarifying the use cases and requirements, we could
clarify which would be better. or there is a possibility that
both approaches could be handled
Sebastian: Suggest merging PR 907
<kaz> [PR 907 has been merged]
Sebastian: T2T discussions on Monday will be helpful also
Issue 307
<sebastian> [23]Issue 307
[23] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/307
Sebastian: Next issue $ref
... initiated by Toru a while ago
... use $ref from JSON schema in TD also
... allows to define model in global space and point to it
(reduces redundancy)
... I support introducing $ref
Ege: there is one limitation: validate input/output by getting
schema
... input for example is not any longer self-contained
<kaz> [24]Example 1
[24] https://www.w3.org/TR/wot-thing-description/#simple-thing-description-sample
Sebastian: whole TD is JSON schema valid
Ege: Correct, but validation would like to check value only
Daniel: Dynamically updating json schema constructs
Ege: Correct, or passing multiple schemas to validators
<Ege>
[25]https://github.com/tum-esi/wot-sys/blob/master/Devices/node
wot-pantilthat/src/base.ts#L315
[25] https://github.com/tum-esi/wot-sys/blob/master/Devices/nodewot-pantilthat/src/base.ts#L315
Ege: "outer" definitions are not visible to validators
Sebastian: Correct. We need to combine the outer definitions
with the interaction type definitions
... Shall we work on proposal
Klaus: $ref at JSON level or TD level
... recommand TD level
Daniel: Support having one global space for definitions
Sebastian: Question: allowing referring to "external" files
Klaus: Useful, but what happens IF TD is retrieved from
somewhere et cetera.. or should it selfContained
<Ege> I need to leave now :)
<Ege> See you next week
Klaus: compromise: TD templates
... TD might be better selfContained
... oneSDF / WISHI has same discussion
Kaz: old issue, so maybe kind of related to Kajimoto-san's
object-oriented project. however, I think this is definitely
related to the TD Template discussion.
... so we should think about use cases and requirements for
both this proposal and the TD Template proposal a bit more, and
then get back to this proposal itself later.
... relates to TD template as well
Sebastian: Not sure if it fully tackles Kajimoto-Sans
proposal/idea
Kaz: yeah, this proposal #307 might be not directly taking over
Kajimoto-san's idea, but we should work on requirements first
Sebastian: Will work on proposal and requirements
Daniel: I am interested also
Issue 908
<sebastian> [26]Issue 908
[26] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/908
Sebastian: Next issue, 908, no default value for observable
Klaus: what does "observable" mean? not intersting to observe
or possible to observe
Sebastian: observable does not say anything about stability of
value
Daniel: not much value in observable
Klaus: +1
PlugFest
Sebastian: talked about a bit
... test new terms, long running actions
... maybe CoAP RDF is ready
Topics for VF2F
Sebastian: Any input?
... feeback from PF about long running actions
... TD templates
... $ref/definitions from JSON schema
... oneDM TDT
... iotschema
... please contact me via email if you have more topics
Kaz: CoAP RDF ontology
Sebastian: Yes
... Next week I am on vacation. I will ask Taki to moderate
<kaz> [adjourned]
Summary of Action Items
Summary of Resolutions
[End of minutes]
__________________________________________________________
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Received on Monday, 15 June 2020 11:51:08 UTC