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[TD-TF] minutes - 24 January 2020

From: Kazuyuki Ashimura <ashimura@w3.org>
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2020 07:55:29 +0900
Message-ID: <8736bjid5q.wl-ashimura@w3.org>
To: public-wot-wg@w3.org
available at:

also as text below.

Thanks a lot for taking the minutes, Taki!



      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                               - DRAFT -

                             WoT-WG - TD-TF

24 Jan 2020


      [2] https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf#Agenda


          Kaz_Ashimura, Taki_Kamiya, Sebastian_Kaebisch,
          Daniel_Peintner, Tomoaki_Mizushima, Ryuichi_Matsukura,
          Ege_Korkan, Victor_Charpenay

          Michael_Koster, Michael_Lagally




     * [3]Topics
         1. [4]Preliminaries
         2. [5]Proposed REC publication preparation
         3. [6]Issue Clarification
         4. [7]Classification
         5. [8]AOB for TD discussion?
         6. [9]Binding Templates
     * [10]Summary of Action Items
     * [11]Summary of Resolutions

   <taki> Scribe: TK

   <taki> ScribeNick: taki


   <inserted> [12]Scribe list

     [12] https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_ScribeRoll

   Sebastian: starting time were 10 minutes after the telecon
   ... I want to change.
   ... I would like to start 5 minutes after the telecon time.
   Also for main call.
   ... last week's minutes
   ... any objections to make last week;s minutes public ?

   <kaz> [13]Jan-17 minutes

     [13] https://www.w3.org/2020/01/17-wot-td-minutes.html

   Sebastian: Kaz, please publish.

Proposed REC publication preparation

   Sebastian: status of publication.
   ... Kaz created a static version.
   ... This is a clone of the latest master branch.
   ... Kaz also made diff against CR2.

   Sebastian looking at diff.

   <kaz> [14]static HTML for publication

     [14] https://w3c.github.io/wot-thing-description/publication/pr/index.html

   <kaz> [15]diff from CR2

     [15] https://w3c.github.io/wot-thing-description/publication/pr/diff.html

   Sebastian: Kaz wonders why we have so many diffs.
   ... We removed at-risk features, typos, bugs in example, etc.
   ... I would like to go over diff.

   <inserted> scribenick: sebastian_

   taki did an analysis about the diffs

   <inserted> [16]Taki's analysis results

     [16] https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/images/c/cc/TD-PR-diff.pdf

   taki showing the result

   Taki: some security section are removed

   <inserted> (removed them due to features-at-risk - Status
   section and several sections)

   Taki: some english fixes
   ... rename name of examples
   ... typo fix for securityDefinition
   ... english fix 'fetching'
   ... added a cross reference
   ... again a typo fix for 'operation'
   ... improve english for vocabulary definition
   ... another cross-reference
   ... at-risk features were removed in securityScheme section
   (there are no implementations)

   <kaz> (several security scheme features were removed due to

   Taki: CertSecuritScheme was removed because of at-risk
   ... PublicSecurityScheme section was removed because of at-risk

   <kaz> (section and as well)

   Taki: in OAuth2Security the values for the flow vocabulary were
   removed due to at-risk
   ... SSE reference was changed to html (request from w3m)
   ... default assumptions table was updated because of the
   removed at-risk security
   ... example 15: updated because of the at-risk removement
   ... forms sections has a better clarification about
   writemultipleproperties etc
   ... 8.3.1 some english improvements
   ... table in 8.3.1 was updated since some values was forgotten
   (however, examples used them)
   ... IANA section was updated (IANA requested for that)
   ... example 34 was updated such as improve english

   <ege> oh

   Taki: JSON Schema in annex was updated

   <ege> So to be quick:

   <ege> Michael McCool had done some changes to adapt to the at
   risk items

   <ege> But it broke some features so I have updated it again

   Taki: reference changes such as sse (see above)

   <kaz> (based on the change with HTML Living Standard)

   Taki: some security references was removed (due to the at-risk
   ... XML reference is new

   <kaz> [17]5.3.2 Data Schema Vocabulary Definitions - CR2

     [17] https://www.w3.org/TR/wot-thing-description/#sec-data-schema-vocabulary-definition

   Taki: used in section 5.3.2.

   <kaz> (non-normative explanation on "Data Schema" has been

   <kaz> (and an informative reference to "xml" has been added)

   Taki: came in when new text was added to improve explanation
   about protocol binding usage (only editorial)

   <inserted> scribenick: taki

   Sebastian: It clarified why we had those diffs.

   Kaz: We made sure every change was non-normative changes.

   <kaz> proposal: we've confirmed all the changes are
   non-normative and editorial, so we'll publish the current
   githubio version of the WoT Thing Description draft as a
   Propose Recommendation

   Sebastian: Let's make a resolution.

   <kaz> (no objections)

   RESOLUTION: we've confirmed all the changes are non-normative
   and editorial, so we'll publish the current githubio version of
   the WoT Thing Description draft as a Propose Recommendation

   Kaz: I continue to proceed with publication procedure.
   ... Next Thursday, hopefully will be published.

   Sebastian: Thank you Kaz and Taki

Issue Clarification

   <inserted> [18]Issue 875

     [18] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/875

   Sebastian: There is a new issue #875.
   ... Can Daniel and Zoltan explain?

   Daniel: In script, to confirm write a value is the current
   ... Internal value may be slightly different.
   ... Write, then need to read currently.
   ... We do not want to introduce special in script.

   Sebastian: Is it similar to echo?

   Daniel: 1.2345 may round to 1.23. Rounded by Things.

   Zoltan: Local policy or solution policy can cause this.

   Daniel: Currently TD provides no mechanism to indicate this.

   Sebastian: Is this a REST feature?
   ... It is more efficient? You can check by get.

   Daniel: You can describe in TD, but no feature in TD now.

   Zoltan: scripting can introduce in its own.

   Ege: When you change name of light, returns success with new

   Sebastian: Should we change "ExpectedResponse" ?
   ... If you have writable proprty, we could have
   ExpectedResponse in form.

   Daniel: currently, expected response only have content type.


     [19] https://developers.meethue.com/develop/hue-api/lights-api/

   Ege is showing an example...

   Sebastian: This is an application protocol.

   Zoltan: name and value are in return.

   Ege: It is its own protocol.

   Zoltan: Should we have application handle this? Or should we
   cover it in scripting?

   Sebastian: We have many similar cases, e.g. existing systems.
   ... We should address this in TD.
   ... How to describe existing systems. I would like to address
   ... I will respond to this issue.

   Daniel: We also need to take a look at IKEA example raised by


   Sebastian: I made classification last time.
   ... I would like to give an overview.
   ... "Forms" label is for "forms"-related topics.

   <inserted> [20]Issue 800

     [20] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/800

   Sebastian: #800 is for expend op with observeallproperties,

   <inserted> [21]Issue 712

     [21] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/712

   Sebastian: #712 is about method names.
   ... Can Daniel double check if this is still relevant?

   <inserted> [22]Issue 617

     [22] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/617

   Sebastian: #617. response in form needs multiple response type.
   ... client can choose from multiple content types.

   <inserted> [23]Issue 303

     [23] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/303

   Sebastian: #303. from Mozilla. About error conditions for form
   ... Lagally also supports the idea.
   ... How to communicate action's success with client.
   ... Should it be application level?

   Ege: There is a similar issue in scripting api.
   ... error names are available in a protocol-independent manner.

   Zoltan: TD should be able to handle errors.

   <ege> [24]https://github.com/w3c/wot-scripting-api/issues/200

     [24] https://github.com/w3c/wot-scripting-api/issues/200

   Sebastian: OpenAPI provides this, but at HTTP-level.
   ... Next about ActionAffordance.

   <inserted> [25]Issue 302

     [25] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/302

   Sebastian: #302. How to cancel or query action requests.
   ... Status of actions.
   ... You can ask the status.
   ... Do we need such kind of feature in TD?
   ... I think this is runtime issue, and can use hyperlink.

   Victor: we can define op type for cancel and updates.
   ... This way server is responsible for this.

   Sebastian: Good idea.
   ... Can you comment in GitHub?

   Victor: yes

   <inserted> [26]Issue 213

     [26] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/213

   Sebastian: #213. semantics of actions.

   Ege: Payload for cancel, we can say we do not have content.

   Sebastian: we already invoked action. We can delete, cancel,
   ... This is post-operation.

   Ege: we need id for action.

   Victor: You should advertise link.
   ... using JSON-LD or hyperschema.

   Sebastian: We revisit this again.
   ... sync vs. async. I am not sure if we really need this.
   ... Next category "EventAffordance"

   <inserted> [27]Issue 817

     [27] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/817

   Sebastian: #817. He claimed event is not very clear.
   ... We have to clarify.
   ... For event container, we are very open.
   ... We can use readOnly and writeOnly, but this is very

   <inserted> [28]Issue 812

     [28] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/812

   Sebastian: #812. Content type for event message.
   ... we need to allow different content types.
   ... We also have JSON schema issues, TD templates issues,
   security related issues, optimization issues, etc.
   ... How do we want to proceed?
   ... if there is urgency, please let us (Sebastian or Taki)

   Kaz: I agree with that basic policy.

AOB for TD discussion?

   Kaz: and I have a proposal for "Any other business",
   specifically about Taki's proposal on sharing the scribe roles
   ... We can discuss in main call on how to improve policies.

   Sebastian: Is it scribe roll?

   Kaz: Yes, and there could be another discussion related to
   ... Probably we should think about some training course for
   ... We should discuss how to deal with that during the main
   ... TD discussion is kind of complicated and maybe tough to
   record for some of us.

   Sebastian: and it is 2 hours call. we can split into one hour

   Kaz: We can consider session by session, or even topic by

   Sebastian: Let's discuss in main call.

   <kaz> Kaz: yes

   Sebastian: So we pick major topics before Friday.
   ... Does it make sense for all?
   ... Ege, do you want to take over?

Binding Templates

   Ege: For binding templates, we do not have big issues at the
   ... We have issues of Protocols of interest, etc.
   ... OPC Foundation is one.

   Sebastian: We should provide RDF representation for MQTT and
   ... We need such official document.
   ... CoAP guys can also see RDF representation of protocols.
   ... OPC-UA people are also working on such representations.

   Ege: any other interest in protocols?
   ... such as bluetooth?

   Sebastian: New initiative called Connected Home over IP (CHIP)
   ... for smart home devices.

   Ege: Modbus TCP/IP devices. How to handle URI schemes for them.
   ... Anyone else interested in other protocols?

   Sebastian: ROS

   Ege: If there is no further comments
   ... OK.

   Sebastian: Thank you very much.
   ... Thank you kaz for preparing for publication.

   <kaz> kaz: and thanks a lot for taking notes, Taki!

   <kaz> [adjourned]

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

    1. [29]we've confirmed all the changes are non-normative and
       editorial, so we'll publish the current githubio version of
       the WoT Thing Description draft as a Propose Recommendation

   [End of minutes]

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